New Machine Build Mechanical design for easy making a CNC router with cheaper parts


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27

Thread: Mechanical design for easy making a CNC router with cheaper parts

  1. #1
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Taiwan
    Posts
    14
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Mechanical design for easy making a CNC router with cheaper parts

    Mechanical design for easy making a CNC router with cheaper parts

    I searching many mechanical parts of CNC router for a long time.
    Because I want making a CNC router for household and I hope I can accomplish it by myself if I could.

    I set to work accumulating some of data then drew a mechanical drawing with some features of the machine as following :

    1. Making the main Structure with AL beams and some bolts & nuts.
    2. Using M12 thread screws to move XYZ axis slide blocks.
    3. Using drawer rail to guide XYZ axis slide blocks.
    4. Using some used pillar bearings to support rotary screws of XYZ axis
    5. dividing of the machine into XYZ axis 3 modules makes it easy to made and assemble.
    6. Dimensions of the machine: 650mmL*600mmW*600H with 3 axis stepping motors
    7. XYZ axis working distance : 250mm*300mm*100mm.
    8. XYZ axis positional accuracy : +- 0.1mm.
    9. It can machining AL .plastic(ABS,PC,PE etc…)and wood.

    The thread screws and drawer rails are very very... cheap than ball screws and linear slide that’s why I using them.

    Now I’m working and I think I can accomplish it perfect ,I using some tools (desktop drilling machine and some HSS drills, HSS saw, taps , vise) in my home.

    About my estimation of mechanical parts and 3pcs 57mm type used stepping motors. I bought them under $ 300 in Taiwan.
    There are some additionally illustrates in following drawings:

    Still I hope got some better suggestions about the job from this zone.

    Thank you!

    Similar Threads:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Mechanical design for easy making a CNC router with cheaper parts-cnc-diy-pic1-jpg   Mechanical design for easy making a CNC router with cheaper parts-cnc-diy-pic2-jpg   Mechanical design for easy making a CNC router with cheaper parts-x-slide-pic1-jpg   Mechanical design for easy making a CNC router with cheaper parts-x-slide-pic2-jpg  

    Mechanical design for easy making a CNC router with cheaper parts-y-slide-pic1-jpg   Mechanical design for easy making a CNC router with cheaper parts-z-slide-pic1-jpg  


  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5516
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Drawer rail probably not the best idea. Once dirt gets in them they will seize up, and with the amount of exposed grease they will attract dust and chips. Also you'll have to "preload" the drawer slides against each other to remove play. I was a cabinetmaker of 20 years, and these drawer slides can accomodate 1/16" or more of slop. If you're using a router for a spindle, then the M12 screws may be too fine to gain the speed necessary to cut the materials you want, unless you're using multi-start leadscrews. You probably can save some money and have a stiffer frame by substituting plate for extrusions in some places.



  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    1795
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    im not joking on you..

    but if you were in Taiwan, then I think you must have access for rails.. hiwin supply the whole world with rails and ballscrews..
    I have to think there must be some factory outlet or depot where you could buy discounted stuff.. it is just my 2 cent..

    HIWIN Technologies????? ??

    that endbearing looks ok..

    the 3 stepping motor for 300 dollar sounds expenses..

    Hot Sell! Wantai CNC Nema 23 Stepper Motor 57BYGH603 1A 290oz in+3 Axis Driver Board TB6560 Foam Laser Mill Engraver Kit-in Stepper Motor from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com
    complete set, means complete 3 axis driver 175 with free shipping to Taiwan..

    for rails about 85 dollar you can get a set with 60 dollar shipping to Taiwan..
    SBR Linear Rails Supported Assembles = 2sets SBR12 L300mm + 2sets SBR16 L500mm + 2sets SBR20 L800mm-in Linear Guides from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com


    about 150 overall cost

    also , if you were using rails instead drawer slides, the aluextrusions can be lighter due rails also reinfore them..

    with these rails I think you could go with 50x50 mm right angle aluextrusion.. 6 mm wall

    I don't know how much cost those drawer slides, but they also wont be cheap for this length.. just sure check everything out before start to shopping..

    Last edited by victorofga; 09-21-2013 at 07:33 PM.


  4. #4
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Taiwan
    Posts
    14
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Hi Victorofga :

    Thanks for your opinions

    Regarding the price of components, I’m sorry for my expression error.
    Truth is the total price of all mechanical components (including 3pcs used stepping motors) under $300.
    The price of 3pcs used stepping motors is only $25 .

    I also knew there are some transmission components maker in Taiwan and they can providing some regular components (ballscrew ,linear slider and bearing) for CNC DIY user.

    But I want to try using some general hardware what I can buy them in our neighborhood ( AL Beams shop ,bolts Shop or B&Q mall)
    The price of drawer slide is about $ 2~4 /pcs Their length 200mm~500mm what I bought in Taiwan. (see PIC-1)

    You said that endbearing looks ok. I think so.But maybe you don’t know it isn’t a regular pillow block bearing.
    I making it using a 3/8” pipe frange and a No.6201Z bearing. I pull The plastic helicoil out from frange’s diecasting AL cover and put the bearing in it then adjust Their Center point and Injecting some epoxy in the gap(see PIC-2).

    Although the price of those components is my considerations. But more emphasis is the things what I want to try my skill(We said “Kung Fu” in Taiwanese). If I using some unregular components to build and adjust the machine. What is the best result ? I'm interested in the things.

    Mechanical design for easy making a CNC router with cheaper parts-drawer-slide-1-jpgMechanical design for easy making a CNC router with cheaper parts-frange-bearing-jpg



  5. #5
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Taiwan
    Posts
    14
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Hi Louieatienza:

    Thanks for your suggestions.
    I knew your Concern about the problem of accuracy, dust ,strength, friction and machining speed.

    I have over 10 years in rackmount cabinet design, I comprehend the quality of drawer slide .
    So I must study the install position for pressure balance and remove some gap between assembling components…

    Perhaps I don’t have to care those problems. If I using some regular components to build the machine.

    But always I like to study and try my “Kung Fu” in special application.

    Even if it fails.I think this is a Pleasure of DIY job. Isn’t it ?



  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    1795
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    well..
    we answered as if you were use your router for machining.. we didn't thinking on to fighting with :-) drawerslides the best way for fighting with issues..:-)

    seriously.. sometime sellers just for try setting unbelievable prices so I was thinking you fallen this type.. that's why showed the acceptable prices..

    the bearings the one Z series are not for dusty environment.. for almost same price you can get the 2RS series which one has rubber seal on both side..
    the one Z series has a metal insert on one side, other is open for dust.. (for fighting :-) )


    while mechanical parts can be pressed down in price the control and other electronic parts not so much.. so my concern is if you were invest your money and time.. I would go better rails screws and avoid the aluextrusions... simply build it of plywood and mdf.. and later when monet comes more, then replacing woodcomponents to aluminum..

    means you spend on aluextrusion, but use drawerslide.. it just weird from my viewpoint..
    but true im not practicing any martial art..



  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5516
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcnc3388 View Post
    Hi Louieatienza:

    Thanks for your suggestions.
    I knew your Concern about the problem of accuracy, dust ,strength, friction and machining speed.

    I have over 10 years in rackmount cabinet design, I comprehend the quality of drawer slide .
    So I must study the install position for pressure balance and remove some gap between assembling components…

    Perhaps I don’t have to care those problems. If I using some regular components to build the machine.

    But always I like to study and try my “Kung Fu” in special application.

    Even if it fails.I think this is a Pleasure of DIY job. Isn’t it ?
    Fine for softer hardwoods and foam. Not good for aluminum. Sure if you want to prove the pointgo ahead but you'll have to bastardize the drawer slides domewhat to obtain travel length without having the ends telescope out or protrude since there is no strength there.

    Plus the surfaces of drawer slides are not hardened. They will wear in time, and with a CNC with hundreds of times the cycles of normal drawer use, you'll have to constantly adjust for slop.

    You might look at surplus THK FBW rails which are like an "industrial" drawer slide. I would personally rather explore one of the skate bearing designs, either on CRS flats or ground drill rod.

    As to the pleasure of a DIY job, trust me: It's more pleasurable when it's a success than when it's a failure!



  8. #8
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Taiwan
    Posts
    14
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by louieatienza View Post
    Fine for softer hardwoods and foam. Not good for aluminum. Sure if you want to prove the pointgo ahead but you'll have to bastardize the drawer slides domewhat to obtain travel length without having the ends telescope out or protrude since there is no strength there.

    Plus the surfaces of drawer slides are not hardened. They will wear in time, and with a CNC with hundreds of times the cycles of normal drawer use, you'll have to constantly adjust for slop.

    You might look at surplus THK FBW rails which are like an "industrial" drawer slide. I would personally rather explore one of the skate bearing designs, either on CRS flats or ground drill rod.

    As to the pleasure of a DIY job, trust me: It's more pleasurable when it's a success than when it's a failure!
    I think your analysis was reasonable because also you comprehend the quality of drawer slide .
    The industrial slide always better strength and accuracy than general slide.And it's lifetime like also.

    Today I already try my home made Z axis prototype ( same as my design drawing).After adjustment . It’s coordinate gap is very small moreover the slide block can carry over 150lbs vertical loading and move smoothly .The screw rod was drived by a 30w stepping motor .I will be paste its video another day.


    In the invention sector. Edison was a successful person, Everyone was agreed that.
    Actually his failure more… more … often than success.
    In that way. Edison was more pleasurable or pleasurable only ? If he was still alive.



  9. #9
    Community Moderator wendtmk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    591
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    The difference is, Edison learned from his and other's mistakes. Other folks have tried the route you are taking, and were unsuccessful with it, as Louie and Victor have pointed out. Do some searches within this subforum on attempts to use drawer slides.

    The folks here on this forum, in the main, are trying to help. And Louie and Victor are two of the most helpful folks around here.

    Mark



  10. #10
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Taiwan
    Posts
    14
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Blank , flat and simple were the features of Apple’s product.
    But that’s why ? Do you know ? what does the mean of blank , flat and simple ?
    What Jobs want to explain his concept?

    Steve Jobs studied the teaching of the Buddha and Zen for a long time.
    In Taiwan . Many many peoples also studying the teaching for several centuries.
    Blank , flat and simple is the idea from the teaching of the Buddha and Zen.

    The meaning was said Apple was flexible and simple to use . everyone can free to play and modify it …….. if they want.

    Although many many people like Apple’s product but they don’t know this reason.

    Just when we talk about “New Machine Build” in this site, Should we think about whether keep Some blank,flat and simple in mind for our "folks"?

    Last edited by tcnc3388; 09-23-2013 at 08:43 PM.


  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5516
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcnc3388 View Post
    Blank , flat and simple were the features of Apple’s product.
    But that’s why ? Do you know ? what does the mean of blank , flat and simple ?
    What Jobs want to explain his concept?

    Steve Jobs studied the teaching of the Buddha and Zen for a long time.
    In Taiwan . Many many peoples also studying the teaching for several centuries.
    Blank , flat and simple is the idea from the teaching of the Buddha and Zen.

    The meaning was said Apple was flexible and simple to use . everyone can free to play and modify it …….. if they want.

    Although many many people like Apple’s product but they don’t know this reason.

    Just when we talk about “New Machine Build” in this site, Should we think about whether keep Some blank,flat and simple in mind for our "folks"?
    I think you may be missing the point here. If you want to keep it simple and cheap, then why use t-slot extrusions when you can get square and rectangular tube stock for way cheaper? Also, have you pondered how you will mount those drawer slides to the t-track? You MAY be able to use a panhead screw and still have enough clearance for the slider to NOT RUB against the screw, and evevn then, you'll have to buy (or make?) t-nuts to hold them down. Since the tracks are just stamped stell they'll distort if you try to torque them down. At least with flat tubes you'll have more bearing surface behind the track.

    I think if you really want to make an inexpensive frame that is still sturdy and can be bought at a hardware store, you may want to look at Kindorf or Unistrut; it's heavy gauge steel, very strong, and very cheap. I think the Joe's Hybrid uses it for the table base... No one here questions Edison's genius, but comparing Edison's achievements to using drawer slides on a machine?! Actually, Tesla was the more forward-thinking of the two, and electricity as we know it today wouldn't be if Edison had his way.

    I don't post this to discourage you, though I will say that many a person have tried drawer slides for a CNC, and almost all of them has gone on to build another machine.



  12. #12
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Taiwan
    Posts
    14
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I got something because I missed something, If I don’t missed something I can’t got something too.(The theorem of conservation of energy)Isn’t it ?

    If all my idea was same as yours . How I can got those much responses?
    If all my experience was same as yours .Then. What still we discuss ? Isn’t it ?
    Certainly it has some value in every discussion, Don’t care with different opinions.

    Perhaps my “simple” unequal yours because my resource different with yours.
    It isn’t the problem of who is right or who is wrong.

    Really very much thanks for those professional opinions and experiences from my dear “folks” of CNC zone.

    They not only for me I think but also for someone who want to know



  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5516
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcnc3388 View Post
    I got something because I missed something, If I don’t missed something I can’t got something too.(The theorem of conservation of energy)Isn’t it ?

    If all my idea was same as yours . How I can got those much responses?
    If all my experience was same as yours .Then. What still we discuss ? Isn’t it ?
    Certainly it has some value in every discussion, Don’t care with different opinions.

    Perhaps my “simple” unequal yours because my resource different with yours.
    It isn’t the problem of who is right or who is wrong.

    Really very much thanks for those professional opinions and experiences from my dear “folks” of CNC zone.

    They not only for me I think but also for someone who want to know
    Well, you've come to a Forum, and you asked for suggestions. And I gave you suggestions based on my limited years of experience and research, and you dismiss them. I don't respond for "personal" gain rather than to get you to maybe reconsider or rethink your approach. It's not personal, but is to be expected in a Forum with thousands of potential viewers. And quite unremarkably the few that have responded to this thread had come to the same suggestion.

    Also you cannot compare experiences that you haven't had yet. So maybe you don't have the experience of drawer slide jamming because of dust and debris, or watching how slow a machine with M12 screw will move even with high end stepper drive. I've tried drawe slides, unsealed bearings, fine pitched leadscrews. Sure they worked, but not to what I want and need. I started as hobby, but now I make money with my machines because I can be competitive with price because I can rely on my machine parts.

    What I'm trying to say is don't make this machine just to "prove a point." Even $300 is a lot to spend on something that ultimately will not perform for what you want to do. Aluminum needs to machined a lot faster than most people think. You cannot machine plastics at that low a feedrate because you'll melt it rather than cut it. I have a pile of broken bits to prove it too. And I guarantee that's not fun. But this is because when I started I did not know about CNC Zone, I learned a lot here and have tried to also share what I rediscovered.

    But if you have been already set with your decisions, then it's a bit pretentious to ask for suggestions that you won't even consider.



  14. #14
    Community Moderator wendtmk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    591
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Louie,

    I guess if someone wants to reinvent a square wheel, let them go ahead. But, they need to report back once that square wheel has been built, and if it ever gets operational.

    Mark



  15. #15
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Taiwan
    Posts
    14
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wendtmk View Post
    Louie,

    I guess if someone wants to reinvent a square wheel, let them go ahead. But, they need to report back once that square wheel has been built, and if it ever gets operational.

    Mark
    My dear Wendtmk :

    Do you have seen a tringle "wheel"?

    It's called "cam" what is used to driver auto machine for several centuries. Don't you know?

    Should still someone needs to report back about this?

    I guess ... Maybe your "wheel" was "wheel only".

    Last edited by tcnc3388; 09-25-2013 at 11:03 PM.


  16. #16
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    388
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    tcnc3388: Louie, Victor, and Mark give good advice to make a well-functioning machine.

    Louie, Victor, and Mark: It sounds like tcnc3388 is looking for a learning experience more than a well-functioning machine.

    David Malicky


  17. #17
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Taiwan
    Posts
    14
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dmalicky View Post
    tcnc3388: Louie, Victor, and Mark give good advice to make a well-functioning machine.

    Louie, Victor, and Mark: It sounds like tcnc3388 is looking for a learning experience more than a well-functioning machine.
    Of course, I knew and I also thanks someone can discussion with me a bored man who from distant country.

    I only express a concept which is well-functioning one and applicative one are different two for different value. They having nothing to do ”what one is right “ or “what one is wrong”.



  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5516
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcnc3388 View Post
    Of course, I knew and I also thanks someone can discussion with me a bored man who from distant country.

    I only express a concept which is well-functioning one and applicative one are different two for different value. They having nothing to do ”what one is right “ or “what one is wrong”.
    That's fine if you're demonstrating your point. Just don't ask for suggestions, then dismiss them. I suppose there might be a little bit of meaning lost in language, but it might not be proper etiquette to request help, then refuse it when it's given...

    As to drawer slides... As far as I know, there is no hardening process done to the bearing races other than that which might occur from forming. The only way to remove slop is to have the slides under load or forced against each other. The bearing balls will prematurely wear and work harden teh bearing surface to the point where the surface will flake off; I've seen it happen on drawer slides under normal wear. So yes, you'll have to trade some slop for longevity.



  19. #19
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Taiwan
    Posts
    14
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by louieatienza View Post
    That's fine if you're demonstrating your point. Just don't ask for suggestions, then dismiss them. I suppose there might be a little bit of meaning lost in language, but it might not be proper etiquette to request help, then refuse it when it's given...

    As to drawer slides... As far as I know, there is no hardening process done to the bearing races other than that which might occur from forming. The only way to remove slop is to have the slides under load or forced against each other. The bearing balls will prematurely wear and work harden teh bearing surface to the point where the surface will flake off; I've seen it happen on drawer slides under normal wear. So yes, you'll have to trade some slop for longevity.
    I knew that the hardening process can reduce wear and increasing the service life of mechanical parts.
    But for some sheet metal part is not applicable because the process(heat treatment) may cause it's deformation or fracture.

    As such reason. The bracket of drawer slides is unable to do so. That is no way .
    In fact .I already knew this before I using it .



  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    1795
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    tcnc..

    I used these slides for drawers.. they are working very well as drawerslides..

    if you like ot use as cnc machine part, then use it.. good luck

    if youask our opinion, then we will give it..
    you don't have to take it..

    if you feel this is the cheap way, designing a year long using high end engineering program, using great quality aluextrusions and all other just from hardware store lower shelves,, then go ahead..

    but don't expect we can find a way you, get working a drawer slide likely hiwin rails are working..
    theres no way.. (simple way)

    me and thoushands others, can write down how it will work, before you just pull a line even on a paper, before you buy parts, before you build this..

    you don't have to trust us.. go on your kung-fu way and build it..

    we all don't benefit neither way..
    you follow we saying or you ignore we saying..


    so good luck with your building.. this is not cheap way you making..

    still I keep my opinion about the cheapest way.. what means if I buy something later I can use yet.. these drawer slides only good throwing neighbor dog when it wants to bite you :-)



Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

Mechanical design for easy making a CNC router with cheaper parts

Mechanical design for easy making a CNC router with cheaper parts