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  1. #81
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    Default Re: Vac System

    1.) Does anyone have any suggestions in terms of the plumbing for a hobby vacuum table? To be more precise, I will have two boards, the top one will have the waffle pattern on one side and a basic square routing pattern on the bottom connecting all the drill holes as per attachment Vac System-waffle-board-bottom-jpg. The bottom board will simply seal the whole thing. I went to a hardware store and the only plumbing that I could find was for bathrooms, which is much too big and I'm not sure if it will handle vacuums.

    2.) I removed the motor from my old vacuum cleaner as per link:

    ???????? ??? ??????? ??????? - ?????? ? ???????? Part 33

    Does anyone have any suggestions in relation to how to best attach some sort of tube to this and then to the above mentioned plumbing? I've got a crude method in mind whereby a simply box is used with a hole roughly the size of the opening in the motor and with a gasket placed between the motor and the lid with the hole. I was just wondering if anyone has a more elegant solution.

    3.) Do you think it would be possible to create two systems in one whereby there are two tubes coming out of the motor, one going to the vacuum table and one feeding the table vacuum cleaner?



  2. #82
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    Default Re: Vac System

    I'd get rid of all the little holes, and the bottom plate. Run a single vac line from the motor to the center of your grid board, and seal off the unused portion with a foam rubber gasket. A vacuum cleaner motor has low vacuum, but high volume, so you want a large tube to move as much air as possible. You might want your grid grooves to be aligned radially to the hole, for better air flow back to the tube.

    3) You'll probably find that your motor is barely strong enough for holding your parts, let alone doing both workholding and dust collection.

    Gerry

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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Vac System

    I used 1/8” ID vinyl tubing rated at 55 PSI with no problem holding my vacuum. You could also use 1/2" copper piping (expensive) or PVC which is used here for underground sprinkler systems. Also drainage / waste piping or piping used for home central vac systems will be a good alternative. But as Gerry suggested you may want to try 1” or 2” piping to accommodate your high volume

    You have to use your imagination on how to attach a tube to your table. Perhaps making some kind of a plenum with 1”x2” hardwood / softwood lumber which you will glue / screw to the underside of your table may be a start. Then you can attach 1 or 2 nipples to this plenum to connect your vacuum

    Nicolas


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    Default Re: Vac System

    1.) Why remove the holes? I'm just copying what mmoe suggested on page 2? It's an identical table to his, I'm just showing my approach to piping on the bottom surface (although I'm not yet sure how I will connect all this to the my vacuum motor). To create a zone, I will fill unused holes with rubber like cylindrical bits (I think mmoe was using screws for this purpose) and use piping as discussed, time consuming but what can you do.

    The bottom plate simply completes the 'piping' and will be a thin board sealing the pattern - hope that makes sense.

    2.) if I use a basic household vacuum motor, how do i know when it overheats, i didn't take this into consideration before but now I'm worried. Might be more prudent to splurge a bit on second hand pump,

    Last edited by Atomic_Sheep2; 08-13-2014 at 08:26 PM.


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    Default Re: Vac System

    Hello CNCzone people,
    It is now 10 years since we first made vacuum clamps for CNC applications using an embedded venturi. We find these to be very reliable and robust, and use air from a normal air compressor to power it.Could this be something to look at as a low cost method of clamping?

    Vac-Clamp
    www.vac-clamp.com



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    Default Re: Vac System

    Quote Originally Posted by Vac-Clamp View Post
    Hello CNCzone people,
    It is now 10 years since we first made vacuum clamps for CNC applications using an embedded venturi. We find these to be very reliable and robust, and use air from a normal air compressor to power it.Could this be something to look at as a low cost method of clamping?

    Vac-Clamp
    www.vac-clamp.com
    In some cases a person could use a system like that, but it would only replace what would be perhaps a 1/2 hp type vacuum pump in terms of what kind of work it would be appropriate for. A venturi system such as yours would pull a part down to a gasketed region and hold a part, but it would not pull enough vacuum in volume to hold a part down using a wasteboard, which is a permeable layer of MDF between the vacuum manifold and the part. In this system, you are cutting through the part into the wasteboard, which is inherently a vacuum leak. Every time a cut is made, more vacuum is lost. The only way to counter this is to have an overwhelming supply of vacuum. In a perfectly enclosed vacuum system where there are no leaks, a person could use sub-horsepower pump to produce a high degree of vacuum over a 4ft x 8ft work surface. In a wasteboard system where there is constant leakage, a pump at around 10hp is needed in order to produce enough vacuum to keep the vacuum level stable even with a full table worth of leakage. MDF is surprisingly porous and you can actually feel the air moving through it if you have a sufficient pump.



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    Default Re: Vac System

    Thank you mmoe,
    You are entirely correct with the MDF porosity issue, and a large vacuum pump is the only way to overcome this issue on nested based (flat bed) machines. Vac-Clamps are an effective low cost Pod style of work-holding for low porosity items, such as natural wood. MDF can be held, but it would need to have a low porosity layer (paint or veneer) to be held successfully.
    Vac-Clamp
    www.vac-clamp.com



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    Default Re: Vac System

    Try this for simple inexpensive vacuum hold down



    url will not show up

    search for this:

    How to Make a Vacuum Table for your CNC Router

    Or this youtube poster:

    DonekTools



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    Default Re: Vac System

    Houston..we have a problem

    must be those 27 scripts cnczone try to run every time I sign on...alas



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    Default Re: Vac System

    Quote Originally Posted by zool View Post
    Try this for simple inexpensive vacuum hold down



    DonekTools
    This video was discussed at length already on page 2 of the thread.

    On a different note...

    1.) What are some ways to mount the vacuum table to the CNC machine apart from the dumb method of T-Slot clamps such as these:

    Clamping Kit, 7/16" T-Slot 1144 - LittleMachineShop.com

    2.) Where do you guys get your neoprene gasket?

    3.) Anyone know where to get vacuum pumps in Australia?

    Last edited by Atomic_Sheep2; 12-02-2014 at 05:37 AM.


  11. #91
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    Default Re: Vac System

    Just purchased one of these:

    Pump, Compressor, Vacuum Technologies

    Will see how it goes. Have a feeling that the CFM might be a bit too low but we shall see.



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