CRP4848 with 1530 base

[allengambrell]

I just got started good on my first cnc router table this week.

It is a CRP4848 but with 1530 side rails and 4 crossmembers. I did this to keep down on cost by almost $200 over 1545 rails. cncrouterparts has some undermount brackets that work great.

Also to save some money I bought all the 8020 myself (the 1530 from a person going out of business and the 3060 from the 8020 ebay store). There is a lot of screw tapping involved. 24 5/16 taps on the base and 4 on the gantry so far. I now know how to tap with my eyes closed.

Thanks to tooldesigner for the videos of the build process, crp should give you parts for those videos.

This may be a long journey!

The parts I am using are listed here.
4 8020 1530 crossmembers (54", but i made a mistake and ordered 57", more later)
2 8020 1530 rails (60")
1 8020 3060 for gantry (60")
1 8020 1530 for z
Cnc Router Parts hardware kit
undermount brackets from crp
4 2.5x0.25x60 Predrilled steel rails from crp
gear rack from crp (could not get it from moore gear in the right lenght)
4 axis 878oz motor kit from Longs Motor 34HST9805-37B2 motor DM860A driver
2.2 kw Spindle from linerbearings2008 on ebay (messaged him for just the spindle)
x200 Hatichi VFD from Drives warehouse
4 conductor 16awg speaker wire from monoprice (for motor wires)
4 pin xlr connectors from mouser for motors

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[allengambrell]

Here are some images of the table I built for a base. It is 57" by 63". I wanted it a little long so I can build supports later to hold a 4x8 sheet of plywood so I can cut it in half. Top is 1/2 mdf and the base is all 2x4s. It turned out very stable.

Also the 1030 crossmember I got already had holes in them to accept bolts. But I also got them too long at 57". I assumed the undermount brackets from crp would need the crossmembers to go under the rail, I was wrong. So I had to cut them to 54" I did it with a miter saw and a carbide tiped blade. The new blade for only $15 and I used some wd40 on them when I cut them. Make sure to clamp them down real good.

[allengambrell]

I have been testing the motor kit today and playing around with mach3.

I am running into a little problem with the motors. I had wired them as it said in the instructions but was getting jerky movement even under 100ipm. I posted on the motor forum and now have them wired in parallel and set to 2.8 current 1600 microstep and seem to be working a little better.

Does anyone else have any more ideas for ideal settings?

My original post

"I got them to turn, but I cannot seem to get them to run smoothly even below 100ipm. I have them wired like the wiring instructions said, which would be the second diagram on the motor spec sheet.

It came with 2 48vdc power supplies, I have the x and a (slaved) wired to one, and the y and z wired to another.

I am trying to figure out what setting on the drivers to set the output current toand the microstep. They came set 7.8a and 51200 microstep. I changed the microstep to 2000 and current to 6.4.

The motors seem to jump and stop spinning. I set them at around 100ipm in mach and the y and z seem to be getting hot (even though I was not joging them for test), but the x and a are not. "

[allengambrell]

Here are the documents for the motors.

[vtx1029]

The 4x4 kits are getting popular around here

Make sure you brace your frame diagonally because they move around more then you would think.

By using 1530 for the rails and cross pieces how are you going to have clearance for the carriages?

[allengambrell]

I will post some image of the undermount brackets later, but the clearance is fine the rail 1530 is 3 inchs off the table with nothing under it.

[vtx1029]

Using these brackets then? http://www.cnczone.com/forums/1034356-post256.html

[allengambrell]

yep those are the brackets. They are really well designed like most of the crp stuff.

[allengambrell]

Here are some images of the cnc as it is right now.

I have yet to do the z axis and am waiting on some new pulleys and helicoil to match the 14mm motor shafts from crp.

You can see how the undermount brackets work. Two socket head cap screws go into the end of the 1530 crossmembers and 2 carriage bolts on the underside and one carriage bolt on the inside of the rails.
If you use these I would suggest that you slide all the brackets in the rails then screw in the crossmembers, square up then tighten the rails.

Also I screwed the 1030 to the table using some l brackets from lowes. One in each corner for now.

[allengambrell]

Running into some issues with the motor testing and mach 3.

I can run mach 3 and the all 4 of the motors will jog, but if I hold the jog key down they will stop moving at random times. Sometimes they will start back but others they will stall and just sit there. I think the stalling my be more motor tuning, but what is causing them to stop when I am continuing to hold the key down?

I have run drivertest and it says pulsing too fast, but once in a while it pops up excellent then goes back to pulsing too fast. I have tried all the options for the kernel speed in the drivertest and they all say pulsing too fast while the number at the top of the screen is around the set kernal rate. I can barely see the little blips on the graph.

This is a computer with a fresh install of windows 7 and mach 3 is the only program installed. I do not even have a network card hooked to it.

Is the pulsing too fast causing the motors to stop turning or is that something else?

[vtx1029]

It could be a problem with windows 7. I think most people are running mach 3 on XP.

Is it your keyboard? Does it act the same if you use your mouse clicking on the jog buttons?

[allengambrell]

permalink
Ok tonight I changed the power setting in the computer, to make sure it will not go to sleep. After I did this I just ran driver test again and it said excellent! Wanted to check the motors before I tried the bois changes so I loaded mach3 to test.
But now None of the motors are turning when I jog!!!
I have changed nothing on the wiring and the power supply lights and driver lights are on, but no moverment. The DRO for all the axis move in mach, the the motors to not move or make any noise. They do torqe up when I apply power but that is it.

I thought it might be the bob, but the estop button is working!

Any help? I am Lost now.

[vtx1029]

Did you hit the offline button under the DROs?

[allengambrell]

Got the motors working beautifully. I had to increase the pulse width to 15. I got them up to 600ipm which was maxed out in mach3. I guess I would have to increase the frequency to go faster. I will wait till I get them mounted.

I also rewired them the 3rd way by the schematic, parallel and set the drivers to 2.8 and 1800 micro step.

I spent the weekend redoing all the electronics and putting them in a enclosure I had from a old photo paper processor. Here are a few pictures.

I am still trying to decide if I want to try to put the hatichi x200 vfd in the enclosure. It would mean I would have to cut out a place in the door for the display and know, it is just a little too deep. Should I go to the trouble or would it cause too much em noise?

I have plugs for each motor on the side of the box using 4pin xlr connectors and a computer power supply cord for 110vac into the box.

I used a old computer switch from a AT case that was DPST to switch the whole thing on and off, but I have yet to build the front control panel and I may use a different one then.

Right now I am using a wall transformer for the 5v at 2a but I found a "http://www.amazon.com/Coolerguys-110v-Molex-Power-Adapter/dp/B000MGG6SC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1332818693&sr=8-2"]5v and 12v combo power supply on amazon that has a molex connector on it. It says it is 2a for each voltage. Best it is only $14.

I also used a Themaltake bigwater 760 for the liquid cooling for the spindle. I looked all over and for the price I could not buy all the components individually.

I am hoping to use the modbus for spindle control so I ordered a "http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005CMQOO2/ref=oh_o00_s00_i01_details"]rs232 to rs485 converter.

[allengambrell]

I found out today that the spindle I order from linermotion2008 was shipped to the wrong person. I hope this gets worked out!

[ahren]

Allen,

I'd recommend against putting your VFD in the same enclosure as the motor electronics. They do put off a ton of noise that could cause squirrelly behavior with your drives, limits or emergency stops -- we've seen it on our demo machine, and the fix was to move the VFD to its own box. My $0.02.

Best regards,

Ahren
CNCRouterParts

[allengambrell]

Thanks ahren,

I will but it in another enclosure, I was going to have to cut a big hole for the panel of the vfd and I really did not want to do that.

[allengambrell]

I just got my spindle in today. Checked it and the one pin is grounded, so no need to do that.

Question about wiring to the vfd.

I got 4 conducter shielded cable to go from the vfd to the spindle.
Question is how to wire it? I know ground to ground and the other 3 wires to the 3 letters on the vfd, but what to do with the shielding? Do I wire it to ground on both ends or just the vfd side. If just the vfd then I guess I need to make sure the shielding does not touch the connector cover which will be grounded back to the motor to the vfd. Am I overthinking this?


Another question on grounding. I want to ground by whole machine, but to what ground the 110 or the 220. If the spindle is grounded to the 220 from the vfd and it is mounted on the machine would not it ground the whole machine to the 220 ground. If so is there any need to ground the whole machine, and if so what ground to hook it too. I checked with a meter on ohms and got a beep from the base holddown to the z plate.

Also I am planing on using 3/8 id tubing for cooling. Would you replace the nipples on the spindle with ones that fit or would you use some kind of adapter to fit? The ones on the spindle are smaller than 3/8.

[Euro3D]

Hi Allan,

Nice progress on your build and looking very good.

I would ground the shield at both ends, which would mean an spurious signals picked up by the shield ahve some were to go.

I set up a Ground bolt on my prewired enclosue then ran all the grounds for teh CRP4848 to this bolt. ie I had 5 individual ground wires as follows
- spindel
- left side of the gantry (used 1 of the 6 riser bolts)
- right side of the gantry (used 1 of the 6 riser bolts)
- Left side of the base frame (used one of the travel stop bracket bolts)
- Right side of the base frame (used one of the travel stop bracket bolts)

Re the ground 110 or 220v I would run with the 220v ground.

I used 1/4 id tubing for the cooling lines as this matched the nipples on the spindle.

Cheers

John

[brtech]

Grounding is not all that hard, but there are a couple of places to go wrong.

The first "problem" you have is thinking that 110 ground and 220 ground are different. They better not be, or you have unsafe wiring.

Let's make sure we're not confusing ground (shield, or uninsulated conductor) from neutral. In 110 wiring, you have neutral and hot. In 220 wiring you have two hots, no neutral. But ground is not neutral, except at your entrance panel, where they are tied together. Ground is ground. You should have a ground rod connection at the neutral to ground tie in the entrance panel.

You want your frame grounded. I would pick a point where I could put a bolt from the frame to the electronics box and have it stick up inside the electronics enclosure. I would tie the green wire ground from the power cord and the power supply - to that bolt. Any shielded wire that came from outside the enclosure to inside the enclosure should tie the shield right to the enclosure as it enters.

Do the same with the VFD. Bond the VFD to the frame, stud from frame to enclosure with VFD power supply green wire ground and power supply - tied at one point.

While we used to say you shield at one end, and that still works well for most circumstances, the latest advice is very good bonding of frames to ground, and ground shield at both ends. If you do ground the shield at both ends, you must make sure you have a really good frame to ground connection. The Z has not-so-great connections to the frame (through the bearings), so I might only ground the VFD wire at the VFD, and make sure I have an excellent ground on the VFD. Probably, it will work fine either way.