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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by spalm
    I was also thinking of the achiestdragon’s angle iron rail on the way home. I like it. Just run two dados down the side of the torsion box for it to lie in. No adjustments needed as it will be a perfect match, and it is already straight. Main problem I saw was that achiestdragon’s drawing is missing the bolt that holds the aluminum angle in place. It seems like this bolt would bonk into the mounting screw(s) for the rail. Have to look at the clearances in cad. I guess the rail could just be attached at the two ends, or …

    Steve
    no it uses a bolt with a countersunk head ,and unless the rail is very small or the bolt too big it should clear easy

    the problem is the bolt on the top of bearing support if the bolts there are too long they would dig in to the side of the MDF , but if the right size bolts are used or longer ones filed down there should not be a problem


    dave



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    Okay, we need someone to look at the angle iron (instead of black pipe) in CAD... Any volunteers?


    On an unrelated subject, here's the angle iron imbedded into the gantry for the roller bearings. How many degrees of freedom do we need to consider for alignment on this? We can embed it in the gantry, and hope it works. Or we can add horizontal adjustment. Or we can add horizontal and vertical adjustment. What do you prefer?

    Mike...

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hardware store design CNC router #1-hardware_store_design_1j-jpg  


  3. #83
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    You guys are making this way too complicated, imo. Routing 2 accurate dadoes down the edge of a box (which itself needs to be VERY accurate) is no picnic.

    How much flex does gas pipe have? I read the other day (somewhere around here) that the stiffness of a tube increases by the cube of the diameter. So my 2" conduit is about ~8x stiffer than 1" gas pipe. I have a 5ft piece laying around and I can't feel any flex with a LOT of force on it. It measures 2.1" OD, so a 2-1/8" forstner bit should give a pretty nice fit. A simple drill press fence and stop should give near perfect results. As far as I can tell from my router (as yet unfinished ), no adjustment is needed. Provided the torsion box is dead flat.

    Mike's going to stop by next week and have a look. Then he can see what I'm talking about.
    Not a good picture, but here's a quick look for those who haven't seen it. Just the two endplates holding it in place. Nothing else needed.
    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attach...achmentid=5793

    Gerry

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    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeschn
    Okay, we need someone to look at the angle iron (instead of black pipe) in CAD... Any volunteers?


    On an unrelated subject, here's the angle iron imbedded into the gantry for the roller bearings. How many degrees of freedom do we need to consider for alignment on this? We can embed it in the gantry, and hope it works. Or we can add horizontal adjustment. Or we can add horizontal and vertical adjustment. What do you prefer?

    Mike...
    I think that the same method could be used for the other half of guide way the in the torsion box. With a table saw a dado could be cut just like on the gantry. Or using a router with a fence it could also be cut. Make the Y axis alignment in the gantry where it attaches to the gantry uprights. The Xaxis only has to move in a straight line so parallel to the table top. use the table top as a Y axis parallel. Then the only adjustment needed is for squarness. of the yaxis.



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    I see how those bearings are riding the rail at a 45 deg. ... and they come close to the bolts securing the pipe. not the most desireable ?

    what about the top and side support - where the bearing is on top of the pipe and the other thrust bearing is on the side - that way,you have one adjust bolt in the rib on the bottom and one on the side....

    what are the pros and cons in that thought ?
    ( i havent built a torsion box , not even the bearing -angle iron assembly yet .. so ,,, not sure how it rides but the load would seem better supported (with more weight looad on one bearing) --- that criss cross design just seems to have an inherent .. i want to break away from the gantry feel to it ....



  6. #86
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Just curious, Mike What did you create that .dxf with? AutoCAD 2002 wouldn't open it. 2006 did, though.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
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    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by ger21
    Just curious, Mike What did you create that .dxf with? AutoCAD 2002 wouldn't open it. 2006 did, though.
    Gerry,

    That .dxf file was created with turbocad 11.1. Of course, by now it's kinda obsolete, the design has progressed way beyond that today...

    Once I get the design working on the adjustable skate bearing support I'll have some more dxf files... in the meantime I'll just throw up a .jpg every now and then.

    I don't think we can assume that a rigid skate bearing support on both sides is the answer. One side, yes, but the other side needs some kind of adjustment. And if no one comes up with anything better, I'll just have to use what spalm has.

    Spalm has a great design, there's no doubt, but can it be improved? That is the question...

    How do we improve this? see attachment...

    Mike...

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hardware store design CNC router #1-bearingxa-jpg  


  8. #88
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    Ye gads, that is the part of the design that I am least proud of. Seems so hokey. When I posted it in the linear bearing threads. not one response was logged. I think that is still a record.

    That said, by golly, it does work. They can ride up and down on the edges of the pipe and obtain a true level. But maybe use sliding wedges or something more sturdy, at least a better carriage to slide in. Gerry seems to be able to pull his into level by tightening his threaded rod.

    Steve



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    Too complicated routing two dados down the edge of box.

    Gerry I love your work, but that was not quite fair. Lets see, seven perfectly placed half rounds per side, 4 perfectly placed end holes, 7x4x2 perfectly placed half lap dados screwed together, struts with bored out holes to reduce weight, and two carefully edge rabited skins that recess into the cross members.

    Which sounds more intimidating to a newbie?

    All kidding aside, after checking, the angle iron rail seems to negate the use of skate bearings. A much large O.D bearing would be needed. It also makes it hard to do a leveling adjustment.

    Mike, IMHO, I think that the top and bottom of the half rounds are too thin. I do not believe that you really need the adjustment screws, and removal would allow you to increase the size of the skin over these for reinforcement.

    (I’m in trouble now)
    Steve



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    u guys ever read the book cnc shop bot .. ? in it the guy mountnts the long rails vertically without the complex rib and 3 bolt positioners.. see my sketch

    those renderings are beautiful -- i'm not that good and fast with 3d as i am with 2d.

    not everybody has a router, and of those that do, not everybody is very good with their router --- if getting those 2 slots into the strip for the groove of the angle is not too bad .. then i that almost seems like one of the hardest parts next to making the batter box .. i mean torsion box.. (sorry its late , im tired ) ...

    ok .. of course you're not seeing the 3 or 4 or 5 bolts that support the rest of the length of pipe in the sketch.... ( .dxf )

    Attached Files Attached Files


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    Guys,
    What about just supporting the bottom of the pipe with a step? I'm thinking something along the line of triangle stock, mounted to the side of the torsion box, but put in place after the pipes are levelled. The sloped side should give clearance for the bearings on a pipe measuring 1.5" dia.

    It's simple, and if required, the pipe can be nested into it using an epoxy metal like JB Weld.
    I've got the parts sitting on the bench, so I can check it out later today after getting some sleep.

    HTH

    Iain

    When all else fails, it's time to think outside the box!


  12. #92
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    What if were were to do something like this for the adjustment side?

    The plate can float freely inbetween those two pieces of angle, and the adjustment can either be a shim (not shown), or 4 shim adjustment bolts (shown).

    There is also the capability for up and down adjustment if needed. Just slot the holes in the angle.

    Mike...

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hardware store design CNC router #1-hardware_store_design1k-jpg   Hardware store design CNC router #1-hardware_store_design1l-jpg  


  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by spalm
    Gerry I love your work, but that was not quite fair. Lets see, seven perfectly placed half rounds per side, 4 perfectly placed end holes, 7x4x2 perfectly placed half lap dados screwed together, struts with bored out holes to reduce weight, and two carefully edge rabited skins that recess into the cross members.
    Steve


    You don't need the half laps to make a good torsion box. And, as was mentioned earlier, you can use either a master template and flush trimming bit to get identical parts, or even a simple fence and stops on a drill press.

    I've cut large pieces on edge on a table saw quite often. It's not that easy. You could do it with a handheld router, but like I said before, the box needs to be more accurate.

    Mostly a matter of personal preference. I think it's easier my way.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    [QUOTE=spalm]Ye gads, that is the part of the design that I am least proud of. Seems so hokey. When I posted it in the linear bearing threads. not one response was logged. I think that is still a record.

    If it helps Splam, I used your idea on my jgro router. It made all the difference in the world.

    Dave



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    Gold Member jgro's Avatar
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    Has anyone considered making the linear bearings out of MDF? Attached below are some CAD models of a LB idea that I came up with using MDF with eccentric bushings. I actually made a prototype using my table saw and drill press and it came out pretty good. The distance from the top surface to the rod was within .003/.004 from one side to the other. It was strong too. I put all 230 lbs of myself standing on one foot and it didn't break. I wish I would have taken some pictures of it before I tore it apart to try something else. Food for thought.

    jgro

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hardware store design CNC router #1-eccentric-gif   Hardware store design CNC router #1-bearing1-gif   Hardware store design CNC router #1-bearing2-gif  


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    linear bearings and pipe suport

    i sketched this now ok not the best method for mounting the liner bearings but very simple to make
    mount the bearing bolts , fit nuts to cover the aria of the shaft that does not want to be bent , using a piece of tube over the nuts bend the bolt untill you get the right angle
    also shown is a way to get a v slot without a router

    not the best way for the bearing holder but with execption of the tube and nuts /bolts its all mdf

    its got to be the silliest way of mounting the bearings anyway imho
    worth a laugh

    dave

    Attached Files Attached Files


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    Interesting...

    If only you could put a hole in the top plate at 45* and thread in a stud.

    Mike...

    Quote Originally Posted by achiestdragon
    its got to be the silliest way of mounting the bearings anyway imho
    worth a laugh

    dave




  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgro
    Has anyone considered making the linear bearings out of MDF? Attached below are some CAD models of a LB idea that I came up with using MDF with eccentric bushings.jgro
    This actually takes care of the split bearing problem on the cheapcnc design. Still need a good way to support the precision ground shaft!

    Mike...



  19. #99
    Gold Member jgro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeschn
    This actually takes care of the split bearing problem on the cheapcnc design. Still need a good way to support the precision ground shaft!
    What I did on my second machine is attached below. I ran a piece of MDF along the whole length of the rod and held the rod to the MDF with some conduit clamps. I've been using it for about a year now with no problems. Think about it, when you use the square adjustment blocks, what is the first thing that you do when you want to start leveling/squaring thing up? You stick a couple of pieces of MDF that are the same thickness under the rods to hold them up at the same height. Why not leave them there as support?

    jgro

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hardware store design CNC router #1-rod_support-gif  


  20. #100
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    I like it. You don't even have to make a v in your support...

    Mike...

    Quote Originally Posted by jgro
    What I did on my second machine is attached below. I ran a piece of MDF along the whole length of the rod and held the rod to the MDF with some conduit clamps. I've been using it for about a year now with no problems. Think about it, when you use the square adjustment blocks, what is the first thing that you do when you want to start leveling/squaring thing up? You stick a couple of pieces of MDF that are the same thickness under the rods to hold them up at the same height. Why not leave them there as support?

    jgro




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