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  1. #61
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    Spalm, Ger,

    You both have mentioned the technical aspects of the job, and I very much agree that this is not going to win the award for the easiest machine to build, but for the extra strength and rigidity I believe that most will agree when I say it will be worth it.

    If we can put our heads together and be very thorough in the designing stage we will make a machine that will have the zone buzzing with new cncers(to coin a phrase).

    My entire point for this discussion is: I have plenty of time to build the machine of my dreams, just no money. Also from what I have read and seen this machine can almost be scaled to a 4'x8' size without any loss of accuracy or strength. You can't say that about many other machines here. If we can pull this off it will be the best tutorial for the person who would like to build a solid machine for few bucks.

    There are those who will say this is too difficult to build and you have to have a cabinet shop to build it, but I believe that what I have seen so far could be built with a jig saw, a router and simple hand tools. I have built much worse with alot less. In my opinion this machine will be technically easier to build than jgro's. It just looks more complicated.

    Stay with it guys! We are on the right track!
    Jimmy



  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by triticale
    I just dug out the pair of drawer slides I knew I'd scavenged some time back. Turns out that they are Accuride precision units rated 150 lbs the pair, with a retracted length of 28 inches. I'm going for a drawer slide design for my first machine.

    One question for discussion. I am considering angling the mounts so that the slides are 30 degrees off vertical. This way I can assemble with preload without needing thousandths precision in construction. I'm also thinking that it will deal with sideloads better. Any comments?
    You won't have enough with just one pair...
    If you build the system with moving X and fixed Y axis, then these are great for the X. (That's exactly what I did)

    For the Y I used "the modified drawer slide" concept.
    Below is a link to a picture of a test axis, it just gives an idea of how simple it can be.

    http://users.skynet.be/sky50985/CNC/testaxis.jpg

    The leadscrew is standard M10 threaded rod, the nut is home-made of nylon and the stepper directly coupled. On the opposite side of the stepper is a single bearing mounted on the frame and fixed with 2 nuts on the leadscrew.

    I used a standard Accuride drawer slide and modified it, today I found these on the net:

    http://www.cabinetparts.com/cgi-loca...24887696.24551

    This is a US? based distributor but found several all over the globe, even in little Belgium here.
    2 of these make a perfect Y axis.

    I don't fully understand what you mean by 30 degrees off and what the advantages are. Think I have a bit of a clue, could you draw somehing up?

    To obtain precise contruction, I did it as follows:
    Screw one of the slides to the base plate, then mount the moving plate on the fixed slide and on the floating one, using slightly oversized holes then move the plate to one side and fix the screw on that side, the same for the other side.
    The plate should now move freely over the entire lenght and all screws can be fitted.

    Hope you understand what I mean, as said I'm from Belgium and English is only third language here.........(at least when I went to school a long time ago)



  3. #63
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    This is the best I can do on the eccentric bolt idea. This is also my first attachment. Hope it works.

    Jimmy

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hardware store design CNC router #1-eccentric-bolt-2-bmp  


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    Jimmy: "I believe that what I have seen so far could be built with a jig saw, a router and simple hand tools"

    I agree. We should always keep the skill level of the target audience in mind, and at least offer them an option or a way to complete the job. I also do not think it will really be any harder to build than the other types.

    Steve



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    Hi Lucas,

    Could you, please, explain to me how did you modify the drawer slides? Eventually, send me an e-mail with the explanations. Also, please, post the link to sources of that "accuride" here in Europe. I am very interested in this solution.

    Thank you for your help.

    Zoltan



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    just looking at the tortion box design , kool

    but i think this modification the the design of the rail supports may be a bit easier to make and uses 1 less bolt per support and may be a little easier to allign , but not too shure , what do you think

    Dave

    Attached Files Attached Files


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    when thinking about building a machine i also thought about using a piece of angle iron rather than a tube or bar , i was not shure if this would be a good idea but theres a sketch of it attached ,

    it would need a method to align it but the principle looks like less effort to make

    Dave

    Attached Files Attached Files


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    Quote Originally Posted by achiestdragon
    when thinking about building a machine i also thought about using a piece of angle iron rather than a tube or bar , i was not shure if this would be a good idea but theres a sketch of it attached ,

    it would need a method to align it but the principle looks like less effort to make

    Dave
    Square tubing might also be a alternative choice set into a V. The surface contact problem is then solved and one could drill a hole thru for a screw to help retain it.

    Edit:
    Then one could construct a jig to hold the router At a 45 deg. angle to mill the V in the torsion box once it is constructed. This would allow for a higher precicion placement of the V.



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    Quote Originally Posted by DieGuy
    Square tubing might also be a alternative choice set into a V. The surface contact problem is then solved and one could drill a hole thru for a screw to help retain it.

    Edit:
    Then one could construct a jig to hold the router At a 45 deg. angle to mill the V in the torsion box once it is constructed. This would allow for a higher precicion placement of the V.

    this would require a router and jig for it , thats why i thought of using angle section , if you did cut a v for it then you could use tube or bar that would provide a better running surface than flat angle iron or box , the problem is how to impliment alignment of it

    it would be easier to align than multiple adjusments accros the lenth , maybe bolting the whole side piece using slotted holes may offer a way ,
    if scaileing up the design is to be considered then having 1 suport every say 200mm is going to have a about 23 bolts to adjust on a 1m design
    and a 3m design is going to have about 56 per side
    thats got to be a pain and a long job to set up

    i do think suport on the rails is a good idea , and the current design looks like it is going to be rigid and a capable machine , but tend to think that it could do with a easyer way to align it

    hope im not stepping on anyones toes here

    Dave



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    Quote Originally Posted by zoltan
    Hi Lucas,

    Could you, please, explain to me how did you modify the drawer slides? Eventually, send me an e-mail with the explanations. Also, please, post the link to sources of that "accuride" here in Europe. I am very interested in this solution.

    Thank you for your help.

    Zoltan
    Zoltan,

    I found some distributors with google "accuride drawer slides", several in the UK and other countries but I didn't save them, I suggest you try Google.
    Edit: look here: http://www.accuride-europe.com/locat...ie&lan=english

    For the modification:
    I removed (sawed, drilled, grinded..) all stops and dismantled the rail completely, take care for the little balls, they roll very far and always somewhere where you just can't reach them anymore.

    Cut 2 pieces of the outside part of the rail, let's say 25cm, this is the total lenght of the axis.
    Then you need 2 pieces from the inner part for the mounting plate: 8cm in my case, file the sides where they contact the balls very nicely so that it can run smooth and doesn't strike the balls.
    This results in a travel of 17 cm (25 - 8).
    Now you need the ball holder section, this must be cut at 16.5 cm (17/2 + 8).
    17 divided by 2 because it only travels at half the distance,speed of the inner part. This is badly explained, neither distance or speed is correct, can't find the correct term in English but i hope you understand.
    Edit: distance is correct: if you slide the inner part by 10 cm then the ball holder only moves 5 cm.

    Clean the whole thing up, reassemble, grease etc.

    Result is a 25 cm slide with a 8 cm moving plate and always fully supported by the balls.
    You can of course adapt these lenghts to suit your needs.

    Remark: this works only for rails where the balls are kept in place when you remove the inner part, obviously. I have some smaller ones wich don't have this feature and thus these can't be used.

    Remark 2: If you don't have some of these rails then you'd probably be better of by purchasing the ones I linked to before.



  11. #71
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    here is an image of a simple jig, It could be used to cut from both the top and bottom of the torsion box to center the V.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hardware store design CNC router #1-jig-jpg  


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    well a v shaped router bit should do the job without a jig



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    Dave,

    You're not stepping on anyone's toes here... We're all friends here, right?

    I looked at your dxf, and at first blush I liked it. But it would require some alignment stuff that you don't show on your sketch. At the very least, an angle above it all, to keep it from shifting down. Is there an overwhelming reason to develop this, rather than black pipe?

    We are still considering all options... after all, that's what open source is... and the final plans could include an option to build with angle or square tube instead of black pipe... depends on what folks here what to see.

    Right now I am working on the support of the roller bearings, and inboard adjustment on one side... it's not looking pretty... if anyone has any ideas, please bring them forward....

    Mike...

    Quote Originally Posted by achiestdragon

    hope im not stepping on anyones toes here

    Dave


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hardware store design CNC router #1-hardware_store_design_1j-jpg  
    Last edited by mikeschn; 08-24-2005 at 06:44 PM.


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    A router or a trimmer will be needed at the completion og the job as the cutting device, this shouldn't pose a problem if one is needed in construction buy it early.
    Is a jig really needed most cheap sets of router bits come with a vee groving bit. I have one HSS about 1" wide. OK not the best quality but if the same method is used on all axis there are ony 6 groves.
    Cheers

    Brian
    The Sawdust Creator


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    Quote Originally Posted by achiestdragon
    well a v shaped router bit should do the job without a jig
    Of course my sketch is not to scale. Just think of how big a V-bit you would need for a 1.5 to 2 inch tube.

    Last edited by DieGuy; 08-24-2005 at 06:36 PM.


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    I don't think it needs to be burried in the side, just captured so wouldn't a 1" bit do.

    Brian
    The Sawdust Creator


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    Quote Originally Posted by DieGuy
    Of course my sketch is not to scale. Just think of how bit a V-bit you would need for a 1.5 -2 inch diameter pipe.

    true , i was thinking of 20mm (approx .75") bar ,
    but if bigger is required you could do multiple cuts until its the size you need

    re the angle iron method two grooves routed for the corners of the angle iron to drop into before bolting would stop any slip

    think i found a way to do the alignment , just trying to come up with a sketch of it

    will post it when done should be easy enough to make by the looks



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    Quote Originally Posted by achiestdragon
    true , i was thinking of 20mm (approx .75") bar ,
    but if bigger is required you could do multiple cuts until its the size you need

    re the angle iron method two grooves routed for the corners of the angle iron to drop into before bolting would stop any slip

    think i found a way to do the alignment , just trying to come up with a sketch of it

    will post it when done should be easy enough to make by the looks

    I actually like that idea, Just route a couple grooves in the side of the torsion box to mount the angle, making the outside to outside a tight fit to the edges of the angle iron. defo a KISS idea.

    Last edited by DieGuy; 08-24-2005 at 06:40 PM. Reason: fat fingers


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    I was also thinking of the achiestdragon’s angle iron rail on the way home. I like it. Just run two dados down the side of the torsion box for it to lie in. No adjustments needed as it will be a perfect match, and it is already straight. Main problem I saw was that achiestdragon’s drawing is missing the bolt that holds the aluminum angle in place. It seems like this bolt would bonk into the mounting screw(s) for the rail. Have to look at the clearances in cad. I guess the rail could just be attached at the two ends, or …

    Steve



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    ok, sketch of angle method with adjustment , and also tube / bar method and v grove method with adjustment also

    not shure if this is a bit over the top but should be strong enough

    should be to drawn to scale for, 18mm mdf , maybe too big do not know

    i used 4 mounting bolts each end , in light designs think 2 may be enough so aligning should be easy

    i have not drawn the bearing holders just the runners

    dave

    added :-
    should note the slotted holes on the end plates show vertical adjustment the end plates thay mount to should have horizontal slotted holes
    doing it this way will allow for slight drilling errors also

    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by achiestdragon; 08-24-2005 at 07:52 PM. Reason: addition


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