What should I charge???

[Gncc50]

I have recently started writing programs for a company. I have no idea what a fair rate should be. Usually when they call it is a drop everything gotta have it emergency. What I have been doing is I write the program then travel to their shop, work out any bugs and work with the operator adjusting feeds and speeds etc. I then stay until the part passes inspection.

I am no expert at programing but they seem to be satisfied. This is an established small company that has been doing defense work for at least 20 years.

I enjoy doing this type of work. I don't want to scare them away but I don't want to work for peanuts either. Any figures you could give me would be greatly apreciated.
Thanks

[tobyaxis]

Originally Posted by Gncc50 I have recently started writing programs for a company. I have no idea what a fair rate should be. Usually when they call it is a drop everything gotta have it emergency. What I have been doing is I write the program then travel to their shop, work out any bugs and work with the operator adjusting feeds and speeds etc. I then stay until the part passes inspection. I am no expert at programing but they seem to be satisfied. This is an established small company that has been doing defense work for at least 20 years. I enjoy doing this type of work. I don't want to scare them away but I don't want to work for peanuts either. Any figures you could give me would be greatly apreciated. Thanks

I do this on occassion and charge by the hour as a contractor $35-85, depending on what they need and who it is. Complexity has a lot to do with what to charge. 3 and 4 Axis parts cost more. Plus you bought your own software and trainned your self using it. Don't forget about how many miles it is to their shop. Most guys I know charge $100-150 an hour but that is why their companies call me. For them to hire a full time employee with benifits they would pay a lot more(Social Security, Federal, State, Fica, Medical etc). Also don't forget about Uncle Sam because he is your partner in Business like it or not. That's 30% in taxes every quarter and don't be late. Sit down with the owner of this company after finding more clients. This will ensure your lively hood and way of making a living. Don't short change yourself by putting all your eggs in one basket either. Get a website too, more business is more money.


BTW; For Emergencys I charge $150+, 200+ per hour weekends and you really don't want to know how much I charge for nights and early mornings.

[converterk]

I charge $100 an hour for this type of work. The fact that you are there until the job is running is priceless for this shop owner.

[tobyaxis]

Originally Posted by converterk I charge $100 an hour for this type of work. The fact that you are there until the job is running is priceless for this shop owner.

Thanks for adding that, it slipped the mind,

[ajl6549]

Wow I'm in the wrong biz!!!

[Geof]

I cannot give you any hints about what you should charge but I wonder whether it is a good business practice to lock yourself into charging by the hour. The problem with this that as you get more experienced and more efficient you do things faster and make less money. Then when you try to boost your hourly rate everybody gets pissed off because 'now you are being greedy'. I think you have to try and judge how complex something is and quote a flat rate. At first this might be based on hour many hours you expect to take doing it but you try to develop a cost schedule based on program complexity not time. Then as you get faster you make the same money per job but you do the jobs in less time so you can handle more jobs and make more money. Easy to say maybe not easy to do but worth it in the long run.

[Mariss Freimanis]

1) Charge by the job until you think you are really good. Then charge by the hour.

While you gain experience you will be inefficient time-wise and no one should pay for that. 'Fair' then is charge by the job while you learn proficiency. When you are really good (a hired gun with a reputation), charge a lot by the hour. You will have the experience and a good guess how long, using your experience, a task should take.

I use 'hired guns' to solve some special portions of our projects. Their experience is very specialized and invaluable. They work very fast and they work very efficiently. The $200 to $500 an hour is worth every penny.

Be prepared to sign NDAs (non-disclosure agreements) beforehand. It is expected where trade secrets and intellectual property is involved. A hired gun never uses what he has learned while working for client 'A' later when working for client 'B'. You do your reputation is shot and you maybe face a lawsuit besides.

2) There are almost never any 'drop everything and come here right away' emergencies. That is your business inexperience showing and someone taking advantage of it.

I mean nothing condenscending by that; my natural reaction is to do what you did. Once years ago I cut a vacation short and left my wife and kids behind to fly home for an 'emergency'. It turned the customer had miswired a drive and figured it out themselves while I was still in the air. Talk about a lonely, bummed-out week.:-)

You'll find over time there is almost never a circumstance that requires such a drastic response. Most everything can be handled by e-mail, a phone call or a scheduled visit in that order. It degrades your value ($$$) when you jump too quickly when beckoned.

Give your clients the impression you can handle and you can handle calmly. The more they panic the calmer you become. This is important. It inspires cofidence in your competence. People need that and it's not misplaced if you are indeed good at what you do.

3) As for business: I get the impression you are tossing around the idea to do this as a money-making venture. Do it cautiously, ease into it as a sideline first.

Never be shy about actively promoting what you are trying to do. You must do everything you possibly can do to let people know your skills are for hire. Pull out all the stops; be shameless

The best compliment I ever recieved was from a pirate "competitor" who described me as a "self-promoting puppet-master". A little long on bombast to be sure; by nature I am a reticent person but it was flattering.

If you are good, let people know. The biggest mistake some make is to think people will come to you. They won't unless you promote what you do. That takes a different effort all by itself. Become your own PR agency with yourself as its only client. You have to do it all initially.

Sorry for the rambling post.

Mariss

[HuFlungDung]

Some good advice already given here, and I don't have any kind of system worked out.

I tend to estimate my programming charges at shop rate....which might be $60/ hr, or whatever seems reasonable in your particular area. If you enjoy it, you will be making good money, hanging around while the program is proved out. You are actually accomplishing most of the work on the job, past the 'button pusher', so maybe you should get their shop rate That might be 'greedy', because most shops would have a programmer on staff, to save money, and I suppose he would get what...... $40/hr or so? I dunno what pure programmers get paid.

If you get swamped, put your price up so that you can thin the demands on your time down, or even make it feasible to hire someone to work for you.

[tobyaxis]

Originally Posted by HuFlungDung Some good advice already given here, and I don't have any kind of system worked out. I tend to estimate my programming charges at shop rate....which might be $60/ hr, or whatever seems reasonable in your particular area. If you enjoy it, you will be making good money, hanging around while the program is proved out. You are actually accomplishing most of the work on the job, past the 'button pusher', so maybe you should get their shop rate That might be 'greedy', because most shops would have a programmer on staff, to save money, and I suppose he would get what...... $40/hr or so? I dunno what pure programmers get paid. If you get swamped, put your price up so that you can thin the demands on your time down, or even make it feasible to hire someone to work for you.

HuFlungDung,

Most Straight Programmers make $65,000 to $110,000 a year working for the Larger Companies

[big_mak]

Charge what ever the market will pay. If you're the only game in town, then don't sell yourself short. I've seen Catia Contract guys make around $70-80/hr plus some expenses. So you can judge accordingly.

[Gncc50]

Thanks to everyone for all the feedback. When I mentioned rate, I didn't necessarily mean hourly rate. Do you have a minimum charge? I asked one guy who worked for a machinery dealer he said he had heard of programers charging by the number of tools...??? He didn't know how much though. I also talked to a guy that said he knew of a MasterCam expert who was proficient at doing mold work and he charged $20 an hour. (I found that hard to believe)


Thanks again for all of the feedback.

[HuFlungDung]

If ample work is available, and your competition undercuts you, he'll swamp himself in demand for his services. A bargain rate is only a bargain to those who can wait (most often).

Have you got XR2? I hope so, because it is getting hella fast to work with