Beginner question in Expert and 2d


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    Member HuFlungDung's Avatar
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    Default Beginner question in Expert and 2d

    Here is a nice example for those of you who are new to Onecnc, coming from a 2d background.
    I wanted to use this as a simple tutoring tool to help jumpstart those newbies out there
    Even though I bought Mill expert for 3D, I am trying to create 2D toolpath just for familiarzing myself with the software more.

    As you can see from the attached file, I have a part with many internal cutouts. How can I chain each cutout and then apply one set of toolpath parameters to them? Or can I? So far. all I have been able to do is select 1 chain, then go through the operations manager to select the tool, depths, etc. Then I have to go back and pick the next one, go through the ops mgr again, etc etc. Seems cumbersome.

    Am I missing something? I remember with the OncCNC Profile, I could select all the chains and then apply the toolpath parameters all at one time.

    I may not be looking at this correctly. I feel kind of stupid, actually! For 3D, I have no problems (yet). Can you shed some light on what may or nor be a roadblock in my thinking and/or lack of understanding of the features of Mill Expert?


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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Beginner question in Expert and 2d-2dmach1-png  
    First you get good, then you get fast. Then grouchiness sets in.

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    Member HuFlungDung's Avatar
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    Default My reply

    Don't feel bad! I'm still learning that there is more than one way to handle many of these situtations. I think part of my problem is the pre-conceived notions I carry around with what certain types of toolpath names mean versus what you can do with them.

    Anyways, to do what you want will require one more step past the 2d that you are used to.
    Use :"Create surface" menu
    use the lowest function on the list, "create surface from curves"
    Pick the outside loop, then pick everything else. Presto, when done, you have now created a surface. Then, instead of using the 2d machining options, you can get right into the 3d. In this case, use SMT Finish, Z level. This will automatically machine everything where the cutter will fit, and not machine the holes if it won't. I opted for a 3/32 cutter, but you can review the tool settings I used in the NC manager when you look at this file.

    Hint1: Zlevel roughing routines will attempt to clean out every pocket.

    Hint 2: Z level finishing routines are "net shape" routines and will assume that all level, flat bottomed pockets have been completed, and will mill just the profile.

    It is best to get your parts into surface or solid forms, so that you can take advantage of the built in gouge protection, and tool size checking that the SMT machining technologies give you. Also, you can render the object as a surface to check that you got everything.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Beginner question in Expert and 2d-2dmach2-png  
    First you get good, then you get fast. Then grouchiness sets in.

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    Member HuFlungDung's Avatar
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    Default

    next

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Beginner question in Expert and 2d-2dmach3-png  
    First you get good, then you get fast. Then grouchiness sets in.

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    Member HuFlungDung's Avatar
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    Default

    Select the rest of the loops

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Beginner question in Expert and 2d-2dmach4-png  
    First you get good, then you get fast. Then grouchiness sets in.

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    Member HuFlungDung's Avatar
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    Voila, the surface is created.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Beginner question in Expert and 2d-2dmach5-png  
    First you get good, then you get fast. Then grouchiness sets in.

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    Member HuFlungDung's Avatar
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    I'm not showing screen shots of all the steps in the tool wizard (that is self explanatory) but when you are done setting it up you will come out to "Pick a boundary"

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Beginner question in Expert and 2d-2dmach13-png  
    Last edited by HuFlungDung; 07-12-2003 at 11:53 PM.
    First you get good, then you get fast. Then grouchiness sets in.

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    Member HuFlungDung's Avatar
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    You get a backplot preview of what the tool path will be, showing also those areas (the holes) where the current tool would not fit

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Beginner question in Expert and 2d-2dmach14-png  
    First you get good, then you get fast. Then grouchiness sets in.

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    Member HuFlungDung's Avatar
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    Forgot to add this: you can render the part as a surface once you have turned it into a surface from the 2d line drawing, otherwise the render preview shows you nothing.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Beginner question in Expert and 2d-2dmach6-png  
    First you get good, then you get fast. Then grouchiness sets in.

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    Default Pocket funtion

    Hu,

    Another way to cut a part like above is to use the "pocket" funtion.

    In photo example one, I only selected the inner features, not the outer boundary.

    Here's how:
    Open the Nc manager, then select "stock tool paths".
    Now select "pocket", then "pick by boundaries"
    Then select ALL the inner features.
    Then set your tools, material, depths, ect.

    And the software will do the rest. It will cut out the inner features.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Beginner question in Expert and 2d-tn_screenshot1-jpg  
    Last edited by wms; 07-12-2003 at 08:03 PM.
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    Here's the second part.

    If you were to select the outer boundary first, then the inner features, the software will do a normal pocket function. It will treat the inner features as islands.

    Same setting as above, except outer boundary picked first.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Beginner question in Expert and 2d-tn_screenshot2-jpg  
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    Default Engrave all

    Engrave all will also work simular to what Hu has shown. With the exception that the tool will be on center line. This would be ok if you were using a water jet, lazer, or plasma cutter, and the kerf were small. And you could live with the smaller part size. Or you drew your features with a offset, to compensate for the kerf.

    Just a thought.

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Member HuFlungDung's Avatar
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    I guess the one issue which I (we) have overlooked, is that profile chain is the sole method of creating an approach that may be desirable to cut out the various holes. Supposing that the shapes in the diagram I posted were to be laser cut, it would be necessary at the current time to select each one individually, is this correct? I may have overlooked this desirable requirement in my initial method.

    This could be a valid requirement for some users, in which case they would like to be able to "mass select" a bunch of loops and profile mill all of them with internal approaches.

    Suggestions, WMS?

    First you get good, then you get fast. Then grouchiness sets in.

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    HU, WMS,

    The ability to select several loops (pockets, cutouts etc) and have them all cut out at the same time with the same tool parameters was a cool feature in the OneCNC product called "Profile". In fact, using the above part as an example, you could select each internal chain, and the point at where you selected the chain became the exact spot the cut would start - and then ALL the selected pockets, cutouts (whatever you would like to call them) would be cut in the order you selected them. This above example is a part where the internal cutouts are just that - cutouts - no material is left on the bottom. They are cut clear through, meaning a simple profile cut is all that is necessary. Althought Mill expert certainly can cut this part properly, it seems to require a separate toolpath operation to be created for each cutout. Quite cumbersome.

    I talked to Mike Reyes about this many months ago and he was right - OneCNC Mill Expert is designed primarily as a 3D contour/solids/surfacing product, not a lowly 2D program. And it does its job well.

    OK I admit it. This is one of MY parts that I make for one of my customers. I actually use another CADCAM prodcut to make it that is geared strictly for 2 1/2 D work, so it's way of dealing with this parts is much more streamlined. However, I am slowly learning my way through Mill Expert becasue i want to learn 3D - which my current 2 1/2 D product does not do, and just was trying to replicate the process I already use in the other product.

    Did what I just say make any sense to you all????

    Have a good evening!

    Mark Linder



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    Member HuFlungDung's Avatar
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    Hi Mark,

    So are you saying you would still like to be able to use the automatic approach feature to start each cut? I'm assuming this is what I may have overlooked. Otherwise, my initial method would be correct, except that the cutter is starting right adjacent to the profile.

    Last edited by HuFlungDung; 07-12-2003 at 11:41 PM.
    First you get good, then you get fast. Then grouchiness sets in.

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    HU,
    I guess it depends on if you are in fact just wanting to "cut out" the inner features by milling. By that I mean say thin sheet that you are cutting and you can let the inner "pieces" just go where they may.
    Then the method you suggested is the way to go. You can use the "ramp follow boundary" to mill your way to your first level, (or full depth in the case of thin sheet).

    If you are milling thicker parts and the "cut outs" will cause problems,(flying projectiles, or broken cutters), then using the pocket function would be better, as it would remove the inner features in a more sane manner.

    If you needed a radial approach then the "profile" would be your only option at this time. And yes, you would have to select each "cut out" individually.

    But if you where doing alot of this type work, I believe the "Onecnc Profiler" product would be the way to go. I think ( but not sure) that it has features simular to what we would be talking about. It is designed just for this type of work.

    I see while I was typing this up Mark anwsered most of our questions. (are you still sweating?)

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Registered mlinder's Avatar
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    Yup!

    Just got back from your basic 8:40pm 90 degree stroller walk.

    Aw, it's not bad really. San Diego is pretty hard to beat - except for super high gas prices, the cost of housing, no water...

    Anyway, I was really just curious as to how Expert would handle 2D compared to Mastercam Router, which I use currently. I cut a lot of carbon fiber which CAN break tools if the cutouts are not dealt with properly. I have a simple technique to keep the majority of cutouts in place without using tape! For the rest, my lead ins essentially split the cutouts into 2 smaller pieces which my vacuum system (no, it's not a Hoover or a Bissel) can take away with no fuss.

    Mastercam Router has made my life extremely easy on the 2 1/2D stuff. Since that is 99% of what I do, I could not justify purchasing Mastercam Mill for 3D even though I am familiar with the interface and the general aspects of the program. On the other hand, I was able to purchase two seats of Mill Expert and STILL this was half the cost of ONE seat of Mastercam Mill. Mill Expert is my 3D software and I am slowly getting into it more and more.

    All right. I'm done.

    I certainly enjoy reading the offerings of HU, WMS, Hardmill, and others. I have already learned so much more than I knew previous to this site coming online.

    I look forward to reading more, and hopefully I can contribute some useful tips in the future.

    Mark Linder



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    Mlinder, Are you using tabs at all to keep it partialy to the main sheet?

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)
    Cadcam
    Turning Product Specialist for a Software Company, contract Programming and Consultant , Cad-Cam Instructor of Mastercam .


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    CADCAM,

    Good morning!

    Most of the parts I produce are simliar in nature to this one. There are many drill holes in the parts. What I do is make a tooling board from MDF material. I then drill holes in the MDF that are sized to hold a tooling pin. These tooling pins are slightly (.002-.004 in) smaller in diameter than the part's drill hole size. In a sense, I make a "template" in the mdf board. Since I am making 100's of these parts at a time, I drill all the holes in the dozens of panels required to produce the job. I then "pin" the tooling board with the appropriate size pins, place the predrilled production material onto the pins and start routing.

    Some parts, which have no holes at all, are tabbed. I rout the panels, and break off the tabs. We then follow with a very light drum sander on the tab to clean it up.
    I hope this answers your question.

    CADCAM, I see you are a Mastercam reseller. Do you now Charles Davis? He is my Mastercam reseller here in San Diego. He is located in Poway - 15 miles north of San Diego. He is a really great guy! He has helped me so much in areas beyond merely the software purchase.

    Have a good day

    Mark Linder



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    Mlinder, you have a top dealer and vary smart person helping you.
    I do know charles you can ask him about if you like.

    I have a question ,You don't find making the pin so much smaller saying .004 tat this make for to much slop.
    Just my look on it.

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)
    Cadcam
    Turning Product Specialist for a Software Company, contract Programming and Consultant , Cad-Cam Instructor of Mastercam .


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    Mark, I swear I know you from somewhere, besides emastercam.

    'Rekd

    Matt
    San Diego, Ca

    ___ o o o_
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    ( )_) ( )_)--)_)

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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Beginner question in Expert and 2d

Beginner question in Expert and 2d