Selling Okuma Macros, How feasible?

[compuslave]

I have a number of Okuma macros that are pretty nifty. How would I sell them to the people who could make use of them? Have any of you ever dabbled in selling them?

[broby]

Well for a start... are you the "intelectual owner" of these macros?
i.e. if you have written them while employed by someone else, the macros are their intelectual property as at the time you wrote them, you were employed by them!
So I would believe that you would need their permission to sell this information.
If you are self employed, you would be selling your strengths to others in the same market as your self! What is the easyist way to make more money than your rival? Make things quicker and easier than they do!
Macros make this much easier to accomplish as they help with making sure your programs run smarter and easier than what anyone else's do!
I, personally, have no problem helping out people with specific questions, rather than general "how do I do this?" types of questions as I think most people would agree, you need to help yourself a little before others are willing to help you.
Cheers
Brian.

[compuslave]

These were written by me at home. I install them on the Okuma I work with but my boss and I have an understanding that unless the macro is specific to a job then I can still sell them to other people. He offers $50 for most routines but depending on the complexity it can be more. I've been doing machine work for many years and I've had the chance to work with numerous controls. I always program on the shop floor and consider myself to be pretty good at what I do. I know there is money to be made in macro programming but the barrier seems to be convincing people that they can actually save money by using them. With the proliferation of CAD/CAM softwares most shop owners/managers insist that programming is not a chore but a simple click of the mouse button. This is why I don't even bother with mill macros, nobody wants them.

It's been my experience that there aren't very many people who are proficient in programming the Okuma control. By letting me saturate the crown I work on with macros it enables more people to operate the machine at a profit. Most of the people I've worked for were not interested in paying me to write macros for jobs, even when it was obvious to me that it would save many hours of programming. Since the Okuma includes it's user task 2 by default I was able to save myself some time by writing some jobs parametrically. When my boss saw this it's like a light went off in his head and he understood the power of this type of programming. The power of the programming sold itself easily.

The trick is to get other people to see what their machines can do when programmed this way.

So I guess my real question is, how feasible it is to think that I can somehow convince folks that they are wasting money?

[broby]

Ah yes, The old trick of getting the horse to drink the damn water once you have dragged it, kicking and screaming down to the edge of the water!
Good luck!
I can fully sympathise with your opinion!

[littlerobb]

I think selling macros is a good idea, but really how many applications can they have. Turn, Bore, Thread, Groove. You give a machine a set of
"guidlines" that can be altered at the control very simply, but if an operator is proficient enough to alter them I would think, probably proficient enough to quickly write his own program manually. Dont get me wrong I really get along with Okuma macros, and use them myself, I just dont know about selling them, but keep updating, who knows, certainly not me.
Robert

[broby]

Well actually, you may well be very surprised just how usefull these macros become!
I know I use all sorts of macros to do things like thread milling, spiral ramping, gun drill cycles etc...
Allows quick and easy programming of otherwise pain the butt work.
These macros are not altered at the machine, just used!

[Tumbleweed Tim]

I am intrested. I have OSP U10L. Okuma ESL8 lathe 2004 model. How can you save me time and trouble? I would be willing to pay for help, I just don't understand what your offering. I write programs, but have never used a macro. Is this like a sub program?

[compuslave]

Macros make repetitive shapes or tasks easy. Bar pulling, similarly shaped parts or highly speacilaized needs such as having your machine tool email you when it has a problem are some uses for macro programming.

[gar]

080315-1549 EST USA

compuslave:

Problems ---
As pointed out how do you get customers to understand the savings possible? Even if you can show savings there still seems to be opposition. To a great extent it is opposition to change. On the other hand some want to change because of some new technology without through analysis and yet that new technology properly or improperly applied may not be as good as old techonolgy. For example using reflected laser beam for size measurement vs a contact LVDT.

How do you find willing buyers? Probably the greatest hurdle.

As mentioned the use of CAD/CAM with no optimization because it seems easy. It is for one off contour type projects, but probably not for volume production, or parametric type applications.

I have products that take a great deal of selling effort. Some of these over the years have saved the users millions of dollars. In one case I improved the thruput of a multimillion dollar assembly machine that required about 20 employes to operate from 80 to 130 parts per hour. If you only assumed the costs were manpower and assigned $50/hr per person, one shift per day at 8 hours per shift, then cost per day is $8000, and and per part $100 at 80/hr and $61.58 at 130/hr. A saving of $38.42 per part. At 100,000 parts per year that is a saving of $3,842,000 per year. Can I generate great interest in the techniques? No. Obviously not all applications would show that kind of improvement.

For some of what we are currently doing see
www.beta-a2.com
www.beta-aa.com
.


Tumbleweed Tim:

MACROS are not the same as computer macros, but are basically additional commands and capability as an extension of the basic G-code language. For example: you can do calculations, send data out via RS232 (DPRNT), use varaibles, modify parameters like tool diameter, use trig functions, and work with IF, THEN and logical variables. These comments are based on HAAS.

I have a tool change MACRO that saves programming time, avoids errors, and makes the program more readable.


.

[Tumbleweed Tim]

Thanks for enlightening me. I have kind of been on my own with the Okuma with out cam. Have a full time real job and a Mill and a family and dog ect. ect. and never get to spend quite the time with it that it deserves from me. I really like the machine, and I don't find the code all that intimidating (only 2 axis) but when you only do it occasionally and read the manuals every time you do something and learn by alarms, someone offering any help sounds appealing.

I do have surfcam, but there are some limitations on the use of it. The SIM keeps me out when my Surfcam guru isn't here (he has a real job also and uses it there) and when he is, it is all about the mill (mold makers for some reason like mills)

What I would like to get is some sub programs that like put a radius on the edge of a groove and somehow checks the main program for tool location and then knows what to do. Is something like that even possible??

How about making thread relief’s with an internal profiling tool? Maybe it is variables I need to be thinking about. I do not have a bar feed, but machine is bar feed ready.

Gar, I looked at your RS232 equipment and I must say that looks better than the 31/2" floppy method I use now. (your parts are very cool as well) I write programs for the lathe in notepad and then carry them to the machine. Most programs are somewhat derived from some Okuma did for me. I have just added and changed things as they come. At first I had long running jobs and everything was cool because the massive programming time required by yours truly to get a running .MIN wasn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. Now it is an issue due to many 1,2,3 pcs. jobs I have been getting. I get the right money for them, but saving some time would be nice. That way I could enjoy my surface grinder or see my wife and dog more often. I see the kids regularly. They stop by the shop wanting more money. That’s always nice to see them working so hard.

I just don't have any extra cash for a cam seat right now, (kids are sucking me dry) and it looks like a fourth axis for the mill will soon take precedence and then I can start thinking about more software again.

But if I could pick up some help cheaper than a cam seat I would be all over it.

Now that I know were all the Okuma people are, expect lots of novice questions from this Tumbleweed person that wants to know what’s up.

Thanks,
Tim

PS. Just kidding about the kids. They are good kids mostly.

[compuslave]

Thanks for the informative post Gar. You make some good points and speak from experience.

I looked at your site. You guys are really on the geek end of things. I love that stuff, it keeps it interesting. However, I must admit that I am a tool maker at heart and mass production doesn't appeal to me, problems do. I like the idea of solving a problem when it comes to repetitive type stuff. Usually that problem is 'How do I end this quickly'

I know guys like you are out there but I don't want to do it for a living. I'm not money hungry with ideas of big cash doing something easy. I tend more towards hoping for a chance to see a problem and being able to offer a profitable solution.

You actually answered my question better than I could have hoped. You remind me that at it's core it's a sales pitch and I'm not a salesman, I'm a machinist. Maybe a nerdy one, but still a greasy ol' chip slinger.

[compuslave]

Tim, If you have specific questions I would help you anyway I could.

You can certainly do the things your talking about. The question is are you willing to spend more time with the machine? Okuma uses a twisted standard for their code. It's almost Fanuc but not quite, there are some substantial differences. What is your cnc experience up until now? If you have none up until now then Okuma should be easy for you to pick up.

I assume you can do the basics that you are needing to get done your just looking now to dabble in parametric programming?

Whatever the case may be I am willing to field any questions you may have. If I can't answer you I bet Gar can lol.