Need Help! Diagonal Hobbing


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    Default Diagonal Hobbing

    Multus u4000 with p300sa control.... it has it's own built in gear hobbing/skiving software but it is limited to only using a straight hob cutter as far as i can tell... u can make crowned gears using z and y axis feed motions just fine, but not "tapered" gears or splines using x and z axis feed motions. It has only one hob diameter input...

    What im wanting to machine is a tapered root spline using a tapered hob cutter but im stuck and our okuma service personel has evidently given up on us. Have been in contact with them about this problem for months but no answers as of yet. I need to move the z and x simultaneously while maintaining the index sync ratio.

    Im not a gear guy nor very fluent with okumas but have lots of cnc experience. The math involved in gear calculations make me cringe lol.

    Does anybody know what im talking about?

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    Default

    A few pics... I'll get the part specs posted asap if anyone replies

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Diagonal Hobbing-20170829_134800-jpg   Diagonal Hobbing-20170829_135221-jpg   Diagonal Hobbing-20170829_134900-jpg   Diagonal Hobbing-screenshot_2017-09-15-05-41-37-png  

    Diagonal Hobbing-20170829_135158-jpg   Diagonal Hobbing-screenshot_2017-09-08-05-40-35-png  


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    Gold Member Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diagonal Hobbing

    Looks like a really good job for a horizontal mill with a 4th axis.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    scaring mice @ north pole deadlykitten's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diagonal Hobbing

    hello corey

    u can make crowned gears using z and y axis feed motions just fine
    please, can you share a photo with such a part and the tool used ? i dont know exactly what the Y feed is doing

    What im wanting to machine is a tapered root spline using a tapered hob cutter
    you mean the attached part ( from your post ) ? also, if possible, please share a photo with your tool, and the drawing of the part section, or even better, 2 drawings of your part section, located at a certain axial distance ( eq 10 mm, etc )

    without knowing all the data, this is what i think of :
    ... simple milling operation, one tooth at a time :
    ...... at least 3 C axis values for each tooth
    ...... a single C axis values for each tooth
    ... broaching with custom tool
    ... using a hob : requires S+M+Z+X sync ( like you also wish )

    kindly

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Diagonal Hobbing-20170829_135158-jpg  
    Last edited by deadlykitten; 11-09-2017 at 07:19 AM.
    Dub FX 'NO REST FOR THE WICKED' feat. CAde & Mahesh Vinayakram, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBmMzabdEKQ




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    scaring mice @ north pole deadlykitten's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diagonal Hobbing

    please excuse my curiosity : i put 2 questions in attached images

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Diagonal Hobbing-01-jpg   Diagonal Hobbing-02-jpg  
    Dub FX 'NO REST FOR THE WICKED' feat. CAde & Mahesh Vinayakram, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBmMzabdEKQ




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    Registered broby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diagonal Hobbing

    Quote Originally Posted by deadlykitten View Post
    please excuse my curiosity : i put 2 questions in attached images
    Yep this is a Gear/Spline HOB cutter.



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    scaring mice @ north pole deadlykitten's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diagonal Hobbing

    hello, taking a closer look at your photos :
    ... image 1 : seems that the part may require special profile among the tooth flanc
    ... image 2 : wavy surface

    a hob operation is fast, but it requires a holder with stacked axis ( = randament lost; better use 2:1 ratio ), and near the operation end, the cutting effort increases

    it may be possible to use a set of tools ( roughing and finishing ); the finishing tool has custom profile, and it can be like an end-mill, or T-shaped; in both cases, this tool would be driven directly by the M spindle, so no more stacked axis
    ... cons : cycle time may increase
    ... pros : setup cost will lower, required machine effort will lower, surface quality will improve, finishing tool will cut less material

    kindly


    ps : my bad, on a multus you may not need a stacked holder; however, check also this video, which shows what i was trying to suggest : cutting is smooth and no hobs are used :



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Diagonal Hobbing-01-png   Diagonal Hobbing-02-png  
    Last edited by deadlykitten; 11-09-2017 at 01:38 PM.
    Dub FX 'NO REST FOR THE WICKED' feat. CAde & Mahesh Vinayakram, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBmMzabdEKQ




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    Default Re: Diagonal Hobbing

    We're going to machine this part complete on the multus using the tapered hob in the first batch of pictures... note that major dia."of the workpiece" Is straight and only the root is tapered. The grooves get wider as cut gets more shallow. This is generated with the tapered hob cutter as it feeds in both x and z as it rotates in sync..

    Last edited by coreywadeadams; 11-10-2017 at 11:04 AM.


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    Default

    As promised....

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Diagonal Hobbing-20171109_115409-jpg   Diagonal Hobbing-20171109_115301-jpg  


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    scaring mice @ north pole deadlykitten's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diagonal Hobbing

    my god, now i see that flat turn is an option, and available ratios are 1:1, 1:2 - 1:6

    but there is also an M238, and i dont know how to go cw-cw, ccw-cw, cw-ccw, ccw-ccw, because SB can not be issued during flat turn ( hmm, M238 may reverse the M spindle )

    i must only fix the ratio problem; mr Wizard, someone, please, a bit of help

    i am sorry correy, i will do my best to help you; kindly !

    Last edited by deadlykitten; 11-09-2017 at 03:09 PM.
    Dub FX 'NO REST FOR THE WICKED' feat. CAde & Mahesh Vinayakram, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBmMzabdEKQ




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    scaring mice @ north pole deadlykitten's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diagonal Hobbing

    mr corey, i was googling to better understand what is a tapered hob and how it works; i have mistaken : in image 1 of post 5 is not a part, but your tool pfff

    i guess you need feed among Y and not among X ( pls check attached image )

    i would input Y feed inside the code for a normal hob, and maybe use X axis only for rapids when positioning, so to reduce stress on tool

    also check this :



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Diagonal Hobbing-01-png  
    Last edited by deadlykitten; 11-09-2017 at 03:54 PM.
    Dub FX 'NO REST FOR THE WICKED' feat. CAde & Mahesh Vinayakram, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBmMzabdEKQ




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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    Looks like a really good job for a horizontal mill with a 4th axis.
    We have a ma500 space center but it has tombstones on it. I could replicate the same setup on the multus and 3d the damn thing but it's such a waste of time when ive got the $1000 hob that will do it in a single pass. The machine is capable, i know it is, but the included software to make the code is not capable of tapered root splines. I'm going to post the code that it gives me for this part. It is good code and it makes a very nice "straight","flat root" spline. I have also tried editing the code by adding in an "x" move when it feeds across in "z", but this resulted in grinding all the spline teeth off the part!! lol



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