about mill hidraulic holders

[deadlykitten]

Hello, please, i have some question about hidraulic holders, for mills :

... why it seems that coolant can go to the flange ? ( image 1 )

... i have a o32 tool with weldon shank ( image 2 ) ; is it possible to clamp it directly into the hidraulic holder without a collet, or should i get a bigger holder, and always use collets when clamping weldon shanks ?

... sometimes collets get stuck inside the holder; more exactly, they enter/slide inside, but only 80-90%; for the rest, i use a plastic hammer ; also, when removing, after i unscrew the hidraulic screw, i remove the tool, but collet is still inside ... to take it out, i use a tool shown in image 3, to rotate it a bit; holders are from a top seller, but ...

kindly !

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[deadlykitten]

why it seems that coolant can go to the flange ?

there are machines that work that way ... obvious

i have a o32 tool with weldon shank ; is it possible to clamp it directly into the hidraulic holder without a collet, or should i get a bigger holder, and always use collets when clamping weldon shanks ?

if hydra holder is used without collet, than cilindrical shank is recomended, so to avoid holder deformation

... sometimes collets get stuck inside the holder; more exactly, they enter/slide inside, but only 80-90%; for the rest, i use a plastic hammer ; also, when removing, after i unscrew the hidraulic screw, i remove the tool, but collet is still inside ... to take it out, i use a tool shown in image 3, to rotate it a bit; holders are from a top seller, but ...

blocked collets is an issue, at least at my provider ... holder dealer said that there are requests to :
... craft holder/bore @ + tolerance
... craft collet/arbor @ - tolerance
... use bigger chamfer on bought

they promised to help me with this hydra holders


i hit into a similar thing, a few time ago, with my ID holders, on lathe :
... they were conic, with difference between bigger and smaller diameter = 0.015
... their nominal/big diameter was in a tolerance = 0.020

thus section of the cilinder/bore was 40 [ - 0.015 .. +0.020 ]

sleeves were entering only a half, or if they fit into one holder, than they don't fit in others

at that moment i had an discusion with my polar bear, and since than :
... all holders are crafted at 40.035±0.003
... all sleves are crafted at 40.015+0.05

now i have same problem on mill hydra holders ... i can not fix them on my own, and i guess this is not an easy job

arbor / bore ensembles require caution, what else can i say

[deadlykitten]

arbor / bore ensembles require caution, what else can i say

H7/h7 is iso, and if a holder producer respects it, this may mean 0 on 0, so no "luft/?" between parts, making ensembles harder, so parts wear faster, plastic deformation appears, and so, for example, once a collet is pulled out, it may be impossible to be put back in ...

some are aware of this, and deliver 66 ...100% H7, respectively 0 ... 33% h7

[deadlykitten]

hello after searching and digging, i have chosen and bought 4 sleeves from seco, kemmler, iscar and rego fix

image 5 & 7 : seco, kemmler, iscar ( from left to right )
image 3 : rego fix

dimensions inside catalogues are ok for external / internal diameters, while for lengths may have errors

thus i bought some of them, hoping that shared dimensions were wrong, thus hoping to be ok in reality

sleeve length may vary in a wide domain, but still, they may work inside same holder

the hole inside the hydra holder has length = L, while the membrane has a shorter length = L-c, where c = cca5mm or something

for a sleeve to work fine, its length* must be :
... greater than the membrane, thus greater than L-c
... shorter than L, so to make contact on the holder face, and not on the holder hole bottom

length* = is not the total sleeve length, but only of the cilinder, thus the part that slides inside the membrane

total_sleeve_length=length* + head_length

variations between length* of the 4 sleeves were < 3mm, but they all worked

---

seco
... little chamfers, thus hard to align on the holder, so to start sliding in
... od crafed towards greater value, thus towards 0
...... as a result, it does not slide smooth inside the holder
... it is not sealed
...... as a result a lot of swarf goes inside the sleeve when milling : this makes the sleeve is hard to be taken out, and it will damage both the sleeve and the hodler
......... nasty

kemmler
... od crafed towards minus
... sealed
... narrow grooves
...... and this is cool

iscar
... od crafted too big
...... it may be that iscar is tryng to protect their product, thus making bigger sleeves ?
... od is conical
...... i think that the sleeve started to deform from some reasons
......... nasty

rego fix
... good tolerances, towars minus
... is not sealed, but it has grooves for peripheral cooling
...... peripheral cooling is ok in tight spots; it should prevent swarf from going inside the sleeve
...... and this is cool

---

it was a mess : damaging the hydra holder not when machining, but when changing tools ... funky bussines