auto Z origin on lathe

[deadlykitten]

Hello, i have a lot of parts with different lenght. I use a finger-mill (Maxis ) to refresh/correct frontal.

Because of their different lenght, i cant xyxyx them at left, but i must use a "caliper gauge" or "depth gauge" to xyxyx them at right, so to have the same Z in front.

xyxyx - i dont know english word, but i think you get it )) ... i guess is "place/settle/buffer/push", but none sounds good to me

I lose too much time placing the parts.

This is the program :

M110 SB1234 M13 M08
G0 X0 Z2.5
G1 Z-1 F0.12 G95
turret right
turret leaves

I need something like this :

M110 SB1234 M13 M08
G0 X0 Z2.5+10
CALL OZORG
G91 G1 Z-1 F0.12 G95
G90
turret right
turret leaves

.....OZORG
.....G1 Z_left until M axis effort raises
.....RTS

Please, does someone has some magical variables / something to make this work ?
This is an operation from classical sector to numerical, and i must not deliver same parts within a longer duration.
If i cant beat/equal classical time, than there is no use ...

kindly ! pleeeaseee ...

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[deadlykitten]

Hello, i looked into parameters for that variable, but i did not find it ... also, i am not so much into that area ..
Also, my dealer just update my OSP and i can tell that some interfaces changed in parameters tab.

Please, i have atached movie clips, one with parameters windows, and one with parameters list ... please, can you help me to locate them ?

kindly !

[deadlykitten]

hello wizard ... what is a "rod" ?

Also, i cut with M axis, and i lose time if turret indexes from static holder to driven holder.

If i would go using a static holder, i think i would use a sensor, rather than a "rod", because i believe that "rod" puts effort over Z axis, while the sensor does not.
Also, i don't have a sensor, but i think that it works withoud loading to much the Z axis.

So, please :
- can you reroll your precious information for M axis holder ? so tool will be spining before the contact ocurs
- what is a rod ?
- can you show me an example using a senzor : code, senzor infos, because sounds nice and maybe i willl use it sometime ...

all the best

[deadlykitten]

thank you ... i'll try it

[deadlykitten]

hello

T121212
G29 PZ=15
G22 Z-1 PZ=12 D3 L0.2 F50 G94

failed a bit ... i guess i have to set "Parameter word No. 71" ... please, where can i find it ? kindly !

[deadlykitten]

They have relocated it to the Load monitoring parameter page on your machine. It is also located in the WORD section of the BIT, WORD, LONG WORD section.

hello, i find it

it seems all variables from parameters are also listed inside a register, so it means that values are not only displayed, ready for input, but contained with a recorder :

displayed info
....english : upper limit of ...
....and i guess more languages
value : word
maybe position reference : parameters list #17
etc

i really find okuma interface a really too futuristic for 1990 this type of data block for each variable makes it easy to handle, and it means that you can remove all windows interfaces, and replace with new ones, without losing stability ... even more, you might work without the interface, maybe with API

registers for variables is not vital, you can keep it on paper ... but in such a form it speeds up some operations ... actual interface looks a bit old, while such records tell that there is something well organized ... you know, keeping stuff just functional, while design can wait

[deadlykitten]

G22 worked, but after that i have a G0 to release contact between tool and material, and i have an error

only G22 works fine, without G0

only G0, without G22 also works

is there a way to cancel G22 mode ?

i guess machine handles that G0 with some conditions for G22 ... so, yes, G22 works, but i can not continue after it

PS : i go to the mill now

[deadlykitten]

ha, found it, is G28 lucky me

[deadlykitten]

...

hello mr Wizard that was just an example, and after, i played a bit with all those to understand them ... i am still under the hood with that ... it's ok so far

[deadlykitten]

G22 Z-1 PZ=40 G94 F50 D.5 L.2 (feeds to Z-1 unless load reaches 40%. Will start searching for part at Z.5 and will stop searching at Z-1.2.)

hello mr Wizard, what is purpose for "L" ? it allows movement to continue after end point ...

as you said, because G22 was intended for parts transfer between spindles ... so this "L" trigers somehow the same behaviour like ±OK. DIST from tailstock setup ? ... only -OK. DIST i guess ...

if you modify end point with "L" distance, and after you put L=0, i think it makes no difference for " senseless gauging " ... kindly !

[deadlykitten]

hello mr Wizard, and thank you for all tips

i managed to put G22 at work, and results were excelent : i had a slippery bar puller, Zorigin tended to vary a lot, so i always correct bar puller travel, to put Z back

it couldn't be easier ... always when i setup something, i hit into everything

i have attached a file with all needed infos to have "auto Z origin" working on lathe hope someone will find it usefull

for pin-point users, here is a subroutine that handles slippery Z origins, and protects against crashes if Z gets too away
- travel=2*V1
- V7 controls how much Z origin is allowed to vary between 2 consecutive parts
- V8 controls how much Z origin is allowed to vary from an absolute point, so to avoid crashing
- just edit values before ( * )

V100=...
VSZOZ=V100

OS...

V1=+2.5         ( Z_start )
V7=1            ( origin tolerance 1 ) ( 0 < V7 < V1 )
V8=20           ( origin tolerance 2 ) ( V8 >>> V7 )
V6=25           ( target load on Z axis )
V4=50           ( feed G94, max 500 )

( * )

V3=0   ( tolerance for V2 )   
V2=-V1 ( Z_end )
V5=5   ( feed correction )

CALL OZCK2 ( origin Z axis check 2 )

G00 X=VSIOX Z150-VETFZ
T050505 M66
G00 X0 Z+V1

G29 PZ=60
G22 Z+V2 PZ=V6 D-V2+V1 L+V3 F=V4*V5 G94
G28

CALL OZCK1 ( origin Z axis check 1 )
 
RTS

( . . . . . . . . . . . . . . )

OZCK1

 CALL OLOG

 IF [ [ ABS [ VSIOZ ] LE V7 ] EQ 1 ] GOTO N01 ( true  )
 IF [ [ ABS [ VSIOZ ] LE V7 ] EQ 0 ] GOTO N02 ( false )


 N01 ( OZCK1 true )
     VSZOZ=VSZOZ+VSIOZ
     G00 ( X375-VETFX ) Z150-VETFZ ( M203 )
     GOTO N03


 N02 ( OZCK1 false )
            ( '                ' max length = 16 )
     VUACM[1]='TOO FAR1'
     VDOUT[991]=999
     M0
     GOTO N03


 N03 ( OZCK1 end )

RTS

( . . . . . . . . . . . . . . )

OLOG

 CLOSE C
 FWRITC STAMPZ.TXT;A

 PUT '    '
 PUT VSZOZ
 PUT '    '
 PUT VSIOZ

 WRITE C
 PUT ' '
 WRITE C

 CLOSE C

RTS

( . . . . . . . . . . . . . . )

OZCK2


 IF [ [ ABS [ VSZOZ – V100 ] LE V8 ] EQ 1 ] GOTO N01 ( true  )
 IF [ [ ABS [ VSZOZ – V100 ] LE V8 ] EQ 0 ] GOTO N02 ( false )


 N01 ( OZCK2 true )
     ( nada )
     GOTO N03


 N02 ( OZCK2 false )
            ( '                ' max length = 16 )
     VUACM[1]='TOO FAR2'
     VDOUT[991]=999
     M0
     GOTO N03


 N03 ( OZCK2 end )

RTS

[deadlykitten]

hello again mr. Wizard >:D<

please, i try to setup tailstock to auto-set ... so far i failed ... this G22 PW=30 D.1 L.15 W0 F50 and this G29 PW=15 raised same attached error ...

please, as i have highlighted some text there, it seems that G22 works only on X and Z ... so G22 works on W only when it is the 2nd spindle ?

i guess this is because tailstock is not rigid conected to w axis, but it has in between that "elastic/compresion element", through which is possible to setup pressing force [ kn ]

i guess G22 PW... trigers motor behaviour, the one that rotates the ball screw, while on a tailstock it should triger the "elastic/compresion element" ...

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

an alternative solution would be to increase ±ok. distance, limited at 3mm max ... kindly !

[deadlykitten]

how did we get to tailstock ?

hi i restart crafting my 1st part on lathe, that i did ~2yrs ago program gets a huge revision .. i use 2 "senseless gauging (SG)" positions, and after 2nd, tailstock comes in

i thought to eliminate 2nd "SG" and use the tailstock instead ... would be nice if i could make it work ... but i guess i can't ... i know that is possible, but not for mere mortals

still testing setup ...

[deadlykitten]

yup, as you said, normal steps are :
...contact & detect material
...calculate some differece & move W origin
...call tailstock

i wanted only to " call tailstock " ... it would be nice

[deadlykitten]

hello

... 1) chuck is open
... 2) i put the bar inside the lathe cilinder
... 3) turret comes in front
... 4) i pull the bar, by hand, out of the cilinder, until it reaches the turret
... 5) i close the chuck
... 6) turret leaves

like this, bar is always out at same distance from the chuck

before step 4, Z effort is 1...2% why after closing the chuck, Z effort raises ? ( 24% in my case )

i don't understand how the effort is monitored when turret is not moving ...

1. NC torque limiter - always ON monitoring for crashes.
2. Load monitor - for detecting worn or broken tools.
3. Torque limiter - used to limit load to a maximum value such as during a part transfer.
4. Torque skip - used to feed to a certain load, and then stop such as when feeding to a part or using a bump stop.

i guess that "NC torque limiter" has senzors not only for motors power consumption ...

ps : if someone is curios why i post this in this thread, is because real steps are :

... 6a) turret not leaving, but "sensless gauging" occurs ( z0.6 ), as described in this thread thx again mr Wizard
... 6b) cut frontal / face at z0.3
... 6c) reset counter from previous bar
... 7) if frontal is not clean, than repeat step 6
... 8) preset number of loops / parts, relative to bar length
... 9) main program start

[deadlykitten]

Hello and good day to you mr Wizard ! and everybody else

i did not fully understood your answer, so i will reformulate the question, to eliminate doubts

... image 1 ) chuck is open, bar is inside ( i can slide / move the bar by hand )
... image 2 ) turret comes in front the chuck, and i move the bar to "bump" on the turret

at this moment Z_effort is 0 - 2 %

after i close the chuck, material will be pressed on the turret; thus there is a tension Z_effort will be ~25%

how is that tension sensed by the machine ? especially when turret is static ?

far as i know, load monitor monitors "electrical current" before the motor, thus monitoring will work only if motor is active

this behaviour that i don't understand is based on monitoring after the motor; how ?

how this load monitor works ?

if monitoring works when motor is active, as well as when motor is passive, than monitoring should be after the motor ? kindly !

[deadlykitten]

Your chuck has clearance in it in order to operate. As it clamps, the tolerances are taken up and the part moves slightly in Z. This shows up as motor load as the axis sees the motion

how does the "axis sees the motion" ? where are the eyes ?

That is why after clamping, you may want to back off slightly with a W axis to avoid pinching the cuttoff tool when the load is released. Use the load meter to determine how far to back off. Move in W+ until the load decreases to zero and then starts to climb again to about 20%. Then record the amount W moved.

as you also said, this is about part transfer between spindles ? well, i don't have 2nd spindle, but is good to know

Put a G91G94 W.00xx F50 in your program to accomplish this after clamping

what means W.00xx ? i guess is inches ? let's see : 0.12mm / 25.4inch-mm = 0.0047 got it

Best regards

you too

[deadlykitten]

That is why after clamping, you may want to back off slightly with a W axis to avoid pinching the cuttoff tool when the load is released. Use the load meter to determine how far to back off. Move in W+ until the load decreases to zero and then starts to climb again to about 20%. Then record the amount W moved. Put a G91G94 W.00xx F50 in your program to accomplish this after clamping. It will make your groove tool last MUCH longer.

i think i get it what is this about :
... turn something in main spindle
... 2nd spindle comes and grabs the part
... bought spindles are rotating syncro
... cutting tool comes in and starts cutting
... when cutting is almost finished, cutting insert may get damaged because of axial tension between spindles

and you, mr Wizard, suggested how to avoid / minimize this, so to protect the tool

i understood this 5 minutes ago hope i got it right

from the 1st moment i read your answer and until now i was wondering why are you talking about W, than cutting tool, than W again, than cutting tool : it was a mess in my head

[deadlykitten]

and you, mr Wizard, suggested how to avoid / minimize this, so to protect the tool

what about cutting, but not all ... only a big groove, so part will still hang in there

... and after, you just break the syncro rotation between spindles ... so you twist the material cutting tool will work as nothing happens

so you may search for the W.00xx, or control the groove depth, so only a small/thin layer remains ...

sounds ok question is if syncro can be breaked when bought spindles are clamping same stuff kindly !

[deadlykitten]

stuff from last thread may work if groove depth is not so big; now i will start writing variants :

v1
... 2nd spindle comes + clamps
... tool cuts a groove, leaving a thin layer at bottom
... tool goes out
... syncro is broken
... 2nd spindle leaves

in this variant all is ok if tool can cut / retreat without being affected by axial tension between spindles

a good sugestion for protecting the tool is "feeding it out" instead of "rapid out" : out_feed = cut_feed x something

v2
... 2nd spindle comes + clamps
... tool cuts a groove, leaving a thin layer at bottom
... tool goes out
... 2nd spindle moves a bit alternative left - right
... syncro is broken
... 2nd spindle leaves

this variant delivers lower material resistance, thus less torque needed when "syncro is broken" ; if coded right, than much required torque from v1 is drastically reduced

v3
... 2nd spindle comes + clamps + moves a bit to right ( as W.00xx from mr Wizard )
... tool cuts a groove, leaving a thin layer at bottom
... tool goes out
... 2nd spindle moves a bit alternative left - right
... syncro is broken
... 2nd spindle leaves

this variant keeps advantages from v2 + protects the tool

v4
... 2nd spindle comes + clamps + moves a bit to right ( as W.00xx from mr Wizard )
... tool cuts
... tool goes out
... 2nd spindle leaves

this is what mr Wizard said

variants v1 .. v4 balance the energy required to cut the part between tool and spindle ( between rotary and linear axis )

if i would have a 2nd spindle, i would try v3