Okuma Genos L300 EM & M560V

[ChrisNZ]

Hi Guys, anybody with feedback on either of the machines or on the Genos line in general. I know the Lathe is out of Tatung production, and was wondering what the general consensus is on these machines.
The Lathe seems to be a bit on the weaker side with 15KW spindle, while competitions offerings are around 22KW.
I am also looking at the Doosan Puma 280LM and DNM mill series which are a lot cheaper by comparison. I know what the response for a Doosan/Okuma comparison would look like, but the Genos line being an entry market product things may not be as clear?
I am also looking at the DMG ecoline CX510 and 1035v and initially prices on the DMGecoline website looked promising, but I have been quoted prices for the baseline that are 80,000 USD above the advertised pricing without any options... I have read very few comments about the DMG ecoline, with one person saying they are built more cheaply than even a Haas...
I like the idea of getting both mill and lathe from the same supplier for training and service reasons...In general I would like the OSP-2000 control best, followed by the new siemens, followed by fanuc...
In this context how good is the new Okuma control by comparison, is it worth the extra dough?

Also looking for some feedback on the up and downside of the driven tool turrets. From what I gather the Mori Seiki turrets are supposedly the most rigid ones, followed by the BMT then VDI. Any feedback on either type appreciated as well.

Last Question: What is your real life experience in regards to the comparison of Box way, vs ball-type, vs roller type linear bearings.
It makes sense to me that from a maintenance perspective linear bearings are easier to replace, where box ways are on top for heavy duty cutting conditions and reduce vibrations. But how much of an advantage are the roller type bearings over the ball type, wondering how much is marketing hype and how much of it is a real life advantage.....

Thanks guys for reading through all this, any input appreciated.
Cheers
Chris

[ChrisNZ]

Is nobody buying these machines? Is everybody so happy with them that they do not need to visit the forums anymore or is Okuma refusing service to anybody who would comment?????
:-)

[Algirdas]

too many questions and too difficult to answer all at once.
Service is the main machine tool selection criteria in my opinion.
OSP P2000 is good if You plan to connect the OSP into ethernet network.
No significant advantages on machine control side

[sleeves]

We have a Haas SL 30(2009) and a TC2 (1991)cnc lathe and have just
recieved a new Okuma Genos 250E . It's a small machine,We like
the controles (PC base). We use Gibbs cam with the lathes and it works
great,easy to use. The Genos has the tail stock pressure adjustment
in the lower right Back of the machine(why). It has a # 5 tail taper in the
tail stock(TOO BIG) Also you can't get at the back of the tail stock to tighten
the hold down bolt unless you take about 8 to 10 sheet metal screws out.
We have not run it yet ,it will be up next week. We bought it to replace
the TC 2 which is a real good machine. We paid the same as it would
have cost for a Haas ST20. We wanted a box way machine for hard turning
close tol. parts. I am having second thoughts.

[ChrisNZ]

We have a Haas SL 30(2009) and a TC2 (1991)cnc lathe and have just
recieved a new Okuma Genos 250E . It's a small machine,We like
the controles (PC base). We use Gibbs cam with the lathes and it works
great,easy to use. The Genos has the tail stock pressure adjustment
in the lower right Back of the machine(why). It has a # 5 tail taper in the
tail stock(TOO BIG) Also you can't get at the back of the tail stock to tighten
the hold down bolt unless you take about 8 to 10 sheet metal screws out.
We have not run it yet ,it will be up next week. We bought it to replace
the TC 2 which is a real good machine. We paid the same as it would
have cost for a Haas ST20. We wanted a box way machine for hard turning
close tol. parts. I am having second thoughts.

Hi and thanks for the comprehensive reply!!.
That is precisely what I was wondering... Is it an Okuma with an affordable price tag or is it a re-labled cheap taiwanese machine? Would really love to hear your experience once you have it running. What is your impression of quality compared to the Haas? Did you have any concerns with the axis being belt driven?
Mind you there might be a couple of design flaws, which is probably not going to get much in the way of running close tolerance on heavy cuts, if everything else stacks up.
I suppose with the price tags of Okuma/DMG/Doosan/Haas entry level machines one would expect to make a sacrifice or two. the question is where to compromise. I think i love the Okuma control, but that will be of little use if you run into serious issues with the belt drives or other components due to the lowered price tag......
Really wonder how it stacks up once you have it cutting.....
Cheers
Chris

[underthetire]

Don't know the genos line, however I was around when the esl8 series came out. Never really had to many issues with them. That was late 90's? The machines were solid, pumps and solenoids would fail more often than the Japanese counterpart, but those are easy to change when they failed to a better one. The esls were made in the tatung factory.

[sleeves]

The Genos is more compact than the TC2 and beefier. But the boring bar tool holders are 1.250 dia. instead of 1.500,so we can't use the tooling from the TC2.The TC2 was made
in Tiawain and held up pretty good. The Genos is made in CHINA and so far as I can
tell has Chine's pumps and motors on it. I haven't gotten all the sheet metal of to look
around. My feeling is it is a Chines made Okuma. I am considering returning it,I dont
think I want to get stuck with a Chines machine,which could have lot's of problems in
the future.We bought it site unseen(never do that again) We also purchased
MB-46VAE mill (2008 Demo from Okuma,looks new) and I am very happy with it.We won't have up till next week . But my gut is not happy about the Genos Lathe,It looks like a production chucker that they added a tail stock to.I am concerned about those other
components.I feel we paid way too much for this Genos thinking we were getting
more of a Okuma machine.I think both this Genos L250 E and the Haas ST 20 are
both OVERPRICED. I have not seen the new Haas ST 20 but the SL30 is weak in
the knees ,but it is a big machine for what we do and the price was good. So I was
sceptical when they jacted up the price on the New ST20.It might be better but not
to the point of what they wanted.The Genos has the coolant tank built into
the base casting,I have't located the coolant pump yet.Also the tailstock
rails are located like the OLD TC2 and the NEW Haas ST 20.But it worked
ok on the TC2.

[ChrisNZ]

The Genos is more compact than the TC2 and beefier. But the boring bar tool holders are 1.250 dia. instead of 1.500,so we can't use the tooling from the TC2.The TC2 was made
in Tiawain and held up pretty good. The Genos is made in CHINA and so far as I can
tell has Chine's pumps and motors on it. I haven't gotten all the sheet metal of to look
around. My feeling is it is a Chines made Okuma. I am considering returning it,I dont
think I want to get stuck with a Chines machine,which could have lot's of problems in
the future.We bought it site unseen(never do that again) We also purchased
MB-46VAE mill (2008 Demo from Okuma,looks new) and I am very happy with it.We won't have up till next week . But my gut is not happy about the Genos Lathe,It looks like a production chucker that they added a tail stock to.I am concerned about those other
components.I feel we paid way too much for this Genos thinking we were getting
more of a Okuma machine.I think both this Genos L250 E and the Haas ST 20 are
both OVERPRICED. I have not seen the new Haas ST 20 but the SL30 is weak in
the knees ,but it is a big machine for what we do and the price was good. So I was
sceptical when they jacted up the price on the New ST20.It might be better but not
to the point of what they wanted.The Genos has the coolant tank built into
the base casting,I have't located the coolant pump yet.Also the tailstock
rails are located like the OLD TC2 and the NEW Haas ST 20.But it worked
ok on the TC2.

The last thing you want when you buy an Okuma is to compare it to the light Haas type of machines. I agree, you would expect more than that. The Takisawas have a very good reputation.
I am starting to wonder if it is common practice across the big name brands to do cheap(do not read great value) spin off and if it will be the same with an DMG ecoline machine. Probably best to settle for a mid range Doosan or Takisawa. At least you would not get the hopes up to high, as an Okuma or DMG sticker would suggest....New world economy....shame, but looks as if a change is coming.....

[fordav11]

Also looking for some feedback on the up and downside of the driven tool turrets. From what I gather the Mori Seiki turrets are supposedly the most rigid ones, followed by the BMT then VDI. Any feedback on either type appreciated as well.

My Okuma LT has VDI 40. It's ok as far as rigidity is concerned. I'd still prefer a bolt-on tool block with 4 bolts like Mori's, but so far not had any trouble with VDI even though the machine is going on 15 years old and it works pretty hard every day
The main advantage of VDI is being able to change tools quickly if you have other tools that are pre-set and ready to drop straight in. If you are putting in different tools or tool types or you don't have a crap-load of spare tool blocks/holders there is no advantage since the tool must be replaced and set anyway. Same goes for Capto. Its great if you pre-set the tool height. Another advantage of Capto is if the turret has the Capto built-in then it allows you to put in longer milling tools/drills. With VDI you have the VDI to Capto milling adapter then the drill/milling tool in a C3/C4 collet chuck which cuts down on how long the M-tools can be. I have 2 Capto milling holders on my machine. The distance from turret face to slide cover is ~8". With the VDI+Capto+C4 collet chuck the tool can be extended maximum 2". That's enough for me but it's something for you to think about with regards to VDI disadvantages.

[ChrisNZ]

My Okuma LT has VDI 40. It's ok as far as rigidity is concerned. I'd still prefer a bolt-on tool block with 4 bolts like Mori's, but so far not had any trouble with VDI even though the machine is going on 15 years old and it works pretty hard every day
The main advantage of VDI is being able to change tools quickly if you have other tools that are pre-set and ready to drop straight in. If you are putting in different tools or tool types or you don't have a crap-load of spare tool blocks/holders there is no advantage since the tool must be replaced and set anyway. Same goes for Capto. Its great if you pre-set the tool height. Another advantage of Capto is if the turret has the Capto built-in then it allows you to put in longer milling tools/drills. With VDI you have the VDI to Capto milling adapter then the drill/milling tool in a C3/C4 collet chuck which cuts down on how long the M-tools can be. I have 2 Capto milling holders on my machine. The distance from turret face to slide cover is ~8". With the VDI+Capto+C4 collet chuck the tool can be extended maximum 2". That's enough for me but it's something for you to think about with regards to VDI disadvantages.

Yes, makes sense. One can see that the 4-bolt mounting would have an advantage, but if that is going to have an practical effect ever is on a different sheet.For my work it will probably never matter. And it is clear to see that pre setting and quickchange offers great advantages for smaller runs of different parts. Thanks for the insight.
Cheers
Chris