NM-135 or NM-200

[MA$TER_E]

Hey guys,

I've been trolling around the forum doing some researching what CNC I'd like to invest in. I've hear and read good things about Novakon. Is there better out there? Does Novakon have some issues? Sure; doesn't everything though? For the money and what I want to do I think this is a perfect fit.

So my question is this...

I only have 110 right now. But the breaker box to the house I rent is literally right there though. I could easily add a 220 outlet just below the breaker box and be set for 220. And as power goes 110 or 220 its still single phase right, so I'm reasoning that I need all I can get and should go with 220. That sound about right?

Next issue would be weight. The NM-200 is much heavier than the NM-135, but I should still be able to make a scooter dolly that lifts the NM-200 up on casters and with a couple buddies roll it up into the back of a u-haul right? Remember, I rent...

The NM-200 just seams like an overall better machine but it costs more. I'd be buying the package deal and thats it. Not to mention the other costs of setting the machine up for 220, shipping, tooling or what-have-ya. With the NM-135 I could buy the package deal, in addition to the 4th axis and still have money for tooling, fixturing or whatever.

Should I follow the philosophy of buy as much as you can and work into it? Its not like I'll be using the 4th axis or coolant any time soon and can always add it to the machine later. I'd just assume use the "place your order now" $500 credit on some cutters and a vise. HaHa, or shipping and an electrition...

I'll be cutting foam and balsa wood for a while anyway while I get into the groove of things. I've used CNC's before but it was more of a put your disk in load the file and push the button kind of an experience.

Thanks Guys,

Eric

[zaebis]

"I only have 110 right now. But the breaker box to the house I rent is literally right there though. I could easily add a 220 outlet just below the breaker box and be set for 220. And as power goes 110 or 220 its still single phase right, so I'm reasoning that I need all I can get and should go with 220. That sound about right?
"

Dont worry about that. Most benchtop CNCs are 110 now.

"Next issue would be weight. The NM-200 is much heavier than the NM-135, but I should still be able to make a scooter dolly that lifts the NM-200 up on casters and with a couple buddies roll it up into the back of a u-haul right?"

Not that simple. Over 1300lbs and very aukward. There are industrial dollies that will hadle the weight but not something that you can make easily and then the dolly itself capable of lifting (not just supporting but elevating) 1300lbs is going to be huge. I moved NM 135 recently with 3 guys and it was a nightmare. NM135 is 1/3 of the weight of NM200.


"I'll be cutting foam and balsa wood for a while"
The only advantage in NM200 will be the travel distances. As long as what you are cutting stays within 14x7 travel cube, go with NM 135. It will cut foam like butter.

[marcel beaudry]

Hello Eric

I have the nm 135 ,
It all depends on what size table you need and what speed your end mill will turn.
speed is good if you want to control your tool on a small machine if you cut wood speed
you will need .
If you cut metal, heavy cut is not always the solution smaller cuts higher feeds will do the same thing.
And do not forget the size of the table.

As for the service NOVAKON and Khai Uong is unbeatable.

Marcel Beaudry

[MA$TER_E]

Hello Eric

I have the nm 135 ,
It all depends on what size table you need and what speed your end mill will turn.
speed is good if you want to control your tool on a small machine if you cut wood speed
you will need .
If you cut metal, heavy cut is not always the solution smaller cuts higher feeds will do the same thing.
And do not forget the size of the table.

As for the service NOVAKON and Khai Uong is unbeatable.

Marcel Beaudry

Hi

Thats kind of the vibe I get from them. They were really quick to reply to my emails and people don't have much bad to say about them.

I don't know a whole lot about feed rates and depth of cut yada-yada but I will. I can get ahold of a machinist hand book and I have my sidekick google so I'll figure it out .

I guess at the end of the day 135 or 200 I'm going to be happy to have a CNC. The hard parts figuring out which one makes more sense...

"I only have 110 right now. But the breaker box to the house I rent is literally right there though. I could easily add a 220 outlet just below the breaker box and be set for 220. And as power goes 110 or 220 its still single phase right, so I'm reasoning that I need all I can get and should go with 220. That sound about right?
"

Dont worry about that. Most benchtop CNCs are 110 now.

"Next issue would be weight. The NM-200 is much heavier than the NM-135, but I should still be able to make a scooter dolly that lifts the NM-200 up on casters and with a couple buddies roll it up into the back of a u-haul right?"

Not that simple. Over 1300lbs and very aukward. There are industrial dollies that will hadle the weight but not something that you can make easily and then the dolly itself capable of lifting (not just supporting but elevating) 1300lbs is going to be huge. I moved NM 135 recently with 3 guys and it was a nightmare. NM135 is 1/3 of the weight of NM200.


"I'll be cutting foam and balsa wood for a while"
The only advantage in NM200 will be the travel distances. As long as what you are cutting stays within 14x7 travel cube, go with NM 135. It will cut foam like butter.

Thanks for the info zaebis.

I wonder though, because most benchtop CNC's are 110 why 220? whats the advantage? More torque? I really have no idea.

Yea I know its going to be no simple task moving a 1300lb machine around but my other option is a full size mill from a friends shop that weighs in at 6000lbs, 220 3phase and would have to lay on its side just to get into my garage.

I've got plenty of steel and buddies that weld so I was just going to build a frame out of 1.50 or 2.00 sqr tube that slipped under the stand then use a couple 2ton car jacks to lift it up .50 inch or so just to get the wheels in for shimmying around the garage or up 2.00 inch for big trips. Honestly I think going up the ramp of a u-haul is a crazy idea. I wonder what those silly aluminum ramps are even rated for??? I could use pipes and winch it up into the truck if I had to but would rather get a truck with a lift off the back end of it and call it a day.

I am worried about envelope. There are some various bike bits and RC heli frames I would like to do that's going to be pretty close to to big even for the NM-200. I'm going to be cutting foam and balsa just to get used to things so I don't go snapping bits off and dorking things up learning on aluminum. But eventually, I will be cutting aluminum and possibly some steels.

[ihavenofish]

the nm200 is 220 because its not a benchtop. its more of a tool room mill and sucks back a fair bit of power. peak spindle power would probably trip a 20 amp fuse on 110v.

on the weight.. um. its a really heavy beast, and while im sure 6 or 8 strong guys could lift it, its probably not the best idea. crane or forklift is kinda needed. i think its actually heavier than the 1100lbs they claim as well.

as for which to get? if you need the travel an power and have the space, the 200 is a very nice machine.

its talents are somewhat wasted on balsa though, and the slow spindle wont do you any favours in wood.

[MA$TER_E]

the nm200 is 220 because its not a benchtop. its more of a tool room mill and sucks back a fair bit of power. peak spindle power would probably trip a 20 amp fuse on 110v.

on the weight.. um. its a really heavy beast, and while im sure 6 or 8 strong guys could lift it, its probably not the best idea. crane or forklift is kinda needed. i think its actually heavier than the 1100lbs they claim as well.

as for which to get? if you need the travel an power and have the space, the 200 is a very nice machine.

its talents are somewhat wasted on balsa though, and the slow spindle wont do you any favours in wood.

Thats a very good point. For most of what I'd be doing the 200 is going to be a bit overkill. I will be doing aluminum but not as often as plastic, wood, fiberglass or carbon fiber. As much as I'd love to have the larger envelope of the 200 I think as you said the overall machine is going to be underutilized.

I know its heavy but that doesn't scare me. I can move my truck around anywhere I want in a shop without ever starting it or even opening a door so moving the 200 around should be no problem. Work smarter not harder; wheels, leverage and a few foot pounds is all it takes.

Even though its not relevant to this thread; check this out.
"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRRDzFROMx0"]YouTube- Building Stonehenge - This Man can Move Anything


Thanks for the feedback guys I really do appreciate it

[MA$TER_E]

So check this out.

I wanted to get some perspective on how much bigger the NM-200 is over the NM-135. Its disgustingly bigger...

I pinned up a CD in the jewel case just so you can get a feel for how big the paper space is.

[ihavenofish]

So check this out.

I wanted to get some perspective on how much bigger the NM-200 is over the NM-135. Its disgustingly bigger...

I pinned up a CD in the jewel case just so you can get a feel for how big the paper space is.

there is a catch to the 15" travel on the nm200 though. you can certainly make the table move that much, but the end of the table will be under the Z counter balance.

so anything 15" deep you put on the table either has to be under 3"-4" tall. main thing is, the table moves 15" and you have 15" spindle nose to column.

aparently some people have moved the counterbalance to get more room.

in any case, the machine is by default set up for about 11.75" y travel, and you have to adjust settings and limit switches to get more.

im not sure about the 24" either. the one i use is the old version and it gets 21.5". its probably just another point of adjusting to get more. khai will be able to confirm all this.

sadly the Z travel is what it is, since you cant overrun on linear rails.

[MA$TER_E]

there is a catch to the 15" travel on the nm200 though. you can certainly make the table move that much, but the end of the table will be under the Z counter balance.

so anything 15" deep you put on the table either has to be under 3"-4" tall. main thing is, the table moves 15" and you have 15" spindle nose to column.

aparently some people have moved the counterbalance to get more room.

in any case, the machine is by default set up for about 11.75" y travel, and you have to adjust settings and limit switches to get more.

im not sure about the 24" either. the one i use is the old version and it gets 21.5". its probably just another point of adjusting to get more. khai will be able to confirm all this.

sadly the Z travel is what it is, since you cant overrun on linear rails.

Now that you mention it I do remember reading something in another thread that the actual travel is a bit less than what is spec'd. But there was some debate as to if the spec's were off or if the machine was older than the spec's and Novakon updated the machine since.

[ihavenofish]

Now that you mention it I do remember reading something in another thread that the actual travel is a bit less than what is spec'd. But there was some debate as to if the spec's were off or if the machine was older than the spec's and Novakon updated the machine since.

yeah, its not entirely misleading, but it isnt the "standard" config out of the box. or at least it wasnt for the one im using. novakon may have them tweaked before shipping now.

[Industrial Dog]

If you are going to move the NM 200, rent a forklift. Day rate for a 5,000 lb lift is around $110. - $180.00 The machines are somewhat top heavy and it is just safer to move them the correct way. When I got my machine it took me 15 minutes to unload from the delivery truck and a day to uncrate and stack the machine on it's stand by myself. From that point on it was light lifting. The newer forklifts are quite easy to operate.

Novakon's customer service is top notch and the machine gets daily use with great results.

Kelly

[MA$TER_E]

If you are going to move the NM 200, rent a forklift. Day rate for a 5,000 lb lift is around $110. - $180.00 The machines are somewhat top heavy and it is just safer to move them the correct way. When I got my machine it took me 15 minutes to unload from the delivery truck and a day to uncrate and stack the machine on it's stand by myself. From that point on it was light lifting. The newer forklifts are quite easy to operate.

Novakon's customer service is top notch and the machine gets daily use with great results.

Kelly

Ya; that would be the easiest safest way. I didn't really didn't give it being top heavy much thought. But I guess that would make sense since the stand wouldn't have much mass to it... Good call. Unfortunately, I'm not sure a fork lift will be able to lift then move the machine around in my garage...



Its starting to look like the NM-135 makes the most sense for me right now. I'd really really really like the NM-200 but I'll have to get an electrician to put 220 in, deal with moving 1300lbs around and not to mention its more money. And I know there's going to be lots of unforeseen costs. Shipping, assembly, software, hardware I know there's going to be more; thats how it works.

Just take how much you think the project will be and add one six weeks and 30% to the cost and that should be about right...

I like a lot of things about the NM-200, working envelope being one of them but I guess I can just add bling to the 135 and work on developing the skills and just see where it goes. And if I have to I guess I could develop an indexing system for projects to big for the 135 and just fixture it up and run a couple programs.


Again, thanks for the feedback guys!