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i have been a member here for a good while. i ordered my novakon nm-145 about a year ago from khai despite some of the bad reviews. after many phone calls khai promised and assured me that there were two sides to the story and that i was only hearing the side of the person or persons that had the complaints about their company or milling machines. when i called khai out on the complaints he had very good answers and made it seem like the people that had complaints were very unreasonable to deal with. Khai assured me that purchasing a nm-145 would be no problem and that if i DID have any problems he would be there to help. khai also reminded me that the machine comes with a 1 year warrantee and if anything went wrong on their end it would be covered.
when my machine finally arrived there were a list of things wrong with it which i addressed with Khai. The most important thing that was wrong was after the first few hours of use i ended up having the infamous spindle motor problems. Khai was eager to help and did send me a new motor and controller 2 different times after each one blew out. i did manage to make some desceant parts in between all the problems. Now finally the last motor and controller he gave me blew out and they have not been answering my emails and phone calls for atleast 5-6 months.
needless to say i paid about $700 for an MPG and tooling that i have not recieved as yet. I have asked for my product or money back many many times. one their responses was that they no longer have a paypal account anymore (hmm... i wonder why). if they didn't have a paypal account anymore they should just send me a check to refund my money.
BOTTOM LINE IS THAT I HAVE A $6,500 MACHINE THAT DOESN'T WORK AND A COMPANY THAT WILL NOT STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCT. O YEA AND GOT ROBBED FOR $700.00 BUCKS.
(note) this story has been scaled down quite a bit too not go on and on.
Dang, I'm both sorry and apprehensive to hear about your bad experience. I have one of the last clearance 145's on order. It should be here in a week or two. I spoke with Khai as well before ordering and he assured me that although the clearance machines come with no warranty, they would take care of any issues I found when I got the machine.
I have my fingers crossed that I will be able to report a better experience.
Eric
Same story here! I too spoke with Khai and was reassured. I grabbed the second to last and I guess AiR_GuNNeR grabbed the last NM-145. I had them hold off delivery on mis while I prepare space in the shop (detatched 2 car garage). I'll have my fingers crossed as well!
this also impact current customers too. value of their investment goes down if vendor reputation is in question. hope to hear from Novakon on their side of story or how they are going to take care of Eric's situation.
regards,
In response to Mr. SpeedFreeks’ comments, we at Novakon feel that these issues should be answered for his benefit as well as for all the CNC members that read and wonder.
“Famous spindle motor problems”
Novakon has recognized, admitted and is presently solving the issues that have surfaced in the market with regards to the VFD/motor on the NM-145.
We have written and published on the CNC zone the decision that we have made and are offering to our NM-145 and NM-200 Series 2 customers.
We are embracing our responsibility although the factory has not done so. The solution to rectify this issue is complex to say the least and time consuming, something that we are aware some of our customers will have difficulties to accept.
Unfortunately, this new “motor kit” had to be researched, tested, manufactured and implemented in order to replace the old motor.
We respect our customers that have worked with the situation and have taken it upon themselves to find an alternative solution in the meantime.
For those customers that have waited for us to offer another suggestion, we are happy to inform them that the “motor kit” is in the final phase of integration testing and soon will be available to everyone.
“Motor and Controller Issues”
As of the day Mr. SpeedFreek reported the problem, we tried to accommodate him by sending him two motors and two controllers over several months at the company’s expense although he should have been charged since he admitted that he “burned” the first motor and controller. It is our policy that the customer returns the motor with the problem prior to our shipping a new one so that further testing can be done in our premises to assist us in validating, learning and addressing the problem. It has been our experience that some returned VFDs exhibited no problems as had been reported by customers.
Although Mr. SpeedFreek agreed to return the sets back, they were never received for validation.
We have therefore not been able to validate if there was a problem by lack of our testing. Furthermore after Mr. SpeedFreek has damaged three (3) VFD sets, we question if the problem is mechanical or operational. At this point we are not in a position to clarify this.
We feel that we have exceeded our warranty policy in this case and no matter what we undertake to provide Mr. SpeedFreek, his ultimate long term solution will be to use the new servo motor kit that we have researched.
“Not answering his calls”
Our company`s personnel is charged with various duties. We have personnel that address maintenance issues and can give no reason to unanswered telephone calls. The past six months, the main maintenance individual is no longer working at Novakon. We have urged our customers to email us for any support issues rather than calling in. Sometimes a problem may take substantial time when during the day it is not be possible to address. We make sure that we answer every concern and question to the best of our abilities. It was never Novakon`s intent not to respond to Mr. SpeedFreek`s calls.
“MPG and Tooling”
Most tooling items are currently in stock. We had initially offered Mr. SpeedFreek a refund if he didn’t wish to wait for delivery, but he refused it and opted to have them shipped when they would arrive. The tooling is presently in stock and is available for shipment provided that the Mr. SpeedFreek will return the old warranted parts to Novakon. Mr. SpeedFreek was not “robbed of his money” but rather he still has an outstanding return debt which he never completed.
“Spindle Upgrade Kits”
The upgraded kits for both the NM-145 and the NM-200 Series 2 have a substantial improvement in quality and value whose cost exceeds the value of the original VFD and motor of the original machine’s hardware. These kits are available to customers that require an upgrade of a VFD and motor at the owner’s discretion. In order to determine the number of kits required, we are accepting pre-orders at a substantially reduced price. This is a “one time deal” that we are offering to improve the machines to higher capability at a very modest cost. After this order phase will be over, the kits will be available at full price for those that wish not to take this offer at present.
In conclusion, we take our responsibility to our customers very seriously and we try to always fulfill our obligations to satisfy their needs on a daily basis. We regret events such as we are addressing with this post and we trust that any unforeseen event can be turned around provided that both parties wish to work together.
Regards,
Novakon Team
I too had a problem with the VFD many months after i bought a 145. Talked to John about the issue and he resolved it instantly by giving me a new one to install on my machine provided i bring back the old one (which i did)
Was very happy with the way he handled the situation and would definately consider going back to him again for other purchases. Thanks JOHN.....
It is not surprising to me that Novakon would take this whole situation and blame it on the customer. They did the same thing to me when I tried to call them out on complaints that other people had against them before I purchased my NM-145. I researched other companies but their machines were not with in my budget. When I found Novakon I was reluctant in buying there machine because it was cheaper than their competitors. (It goes to show you get what you pay for.) After speaking with Khai at Novakon I really felt assured I was making the right decision despite the complaints I read about them. This has been going on for just about a year since the arrival of my machine. I feel I have been more than patient with Novakon.
Please note that the below responses in red are my response.
In response to Mr. SpeedFreeks’ comments, we at Novakon feel that these issues should be answered for his benefit as well as for all the CNC members that read and wonder.
Of course Novakon doesn’t want any of their new potential customers to think they are ignoring or not being receptive to any disputes from their existing customers. So it is not really to my benefit because they should have been returning both my phone calls or emails I have sent before I went on this forum to complain.
“Famous spindle motor problems”
Novakon has recognized, admitted and is presently solving the issues that have surfaced in the market with regards to the VFD/motor on the NM-145.
We have written and published on the CNC zone the decision that we have made and are offering to our NM-145 and NM-200 Series 2 customers.
We are embracing our responsibility although the factory has not done so. The solution to rectify this issue is complex to say the least and time consuming, something that we are aware some of our customers will have difficulties to accept.
Unfortunately, this new “motor kit” had to be researched, tested, manufactured and implemented in order to replace the old motor.
We respect our customers that have worked with the situation and have taken it upon themselves to find an alternative solution in the meantime.
For those customers that have waited for us to offer another suggestion, we are happy to inform them that the “motor kit” is in the final phase of integration testing and soon will be available to everyone.
Is this going to be a warranty part or is it something the customer will have to pay???
“Motor and Controller Issues”
As of the day Mr. SpeedFreek reported the problem, we tried to accommodate him by sending him two motors and two controllers over several months at the company’s expense although he should have been charged since he admitted that he “burned” the first motor and controller. It is our policy that the customer returns the motor with the problem prior to our shipping a new one so that further testing can be done in our premises to assist us in validating, learning and addressing the problem. It has been our experience that some returned VFDs exhibited no problems as had been reported by customers.
You mean by me using the machine for the very first time to engrave a plate with my Logo on it caused me to burn the motor out ??? As you can see in the pic below the logo I was cutting was not finished due to the machine burning out not me burning it out. I was only using a .060 end mill, .008 depth to Engrave my logo when the machine burned out. When I called Khai to let him know what happened he told me yes we have been having problems with the controllers in your machine and shipped a new one out to me providing I paid shipping before it left the building as I did with all the other components that were shipped to me.
Although Mr. SpeedFreek agreed to return the sets back, they were never received for validation.
We have therefore not been able to validate if there was a problem by lack of our testing. Furthermore after Mr. SpeedFreek has damaged three (3) VFD sets, we question if the problem is mechanical or operational. At this point we are not in a position to clarify this.
We feel that we have exceeded our warranty policy in this case and no matter what we undertake to provide Mr. SpeedFreek, his ultimate long term solution will be to use the new servo motor kit that we have researched.
If all this above is true how is it that I received 1 coolant pump, 2 controllers, and 2 spindle motors as well as varies wires and plugs. (See pic below) You can see for yourself that they are full of BS and lies. If they truly wanted back their components they wouldn’t have sent me these components without receiving the old ones back first. We were on a friendly basis until they stopped taking my phone calls and returning my emails. This is the first time I’m hearing that I have their components hostage. If their components meant that much to them why have they not contacted me in the last 6 months to let me know they would no longer do business with me until they received their components back????
They claim that the 3 VFD sets that I received are in question, whether it is mechanical or operational. Yet in their own words below they admit and acknowledge there is a problem:
Novakon has recognized, admitted and is presently solving the issues that have surfaced in the market with regards to the VFD/motor on the NM-145.
We are embracing our responsibility although the factory has not done so. The solution to rectify this issue is complex to say the least and time consuming, something that we are aware some of our customers will have difficulties to accept.
Unfortunately, this new “motor kit” had to be researched, tested, manufactured and implemented in order to replace the old motor.
"Not answering his calls”
Our company`s personnel is charged with various duties. We have personnel that address maintenance issues and can give no reason to unanswered telephone calls. The past six months, the main maintenance individual is no longer working at Novakon. We have urged our customers to email us for any support issues rather than calling in. Sometimes a problem may take substantial time when during the day it is not be possible to address. We make sure that we answer every concern and question to the best of our abilities. It was never Novakon`s intent not to respond to Mr. SpeedFreek`s calls.
Novakon should be embarrassed by this reply to unanswered phone calls. But let it be known that I have not only been calling but sending emails as well and have not received responses. How can a company run their business collecting thousands of dollars from customers and you can only communicate through email???
From my experience, If you are a new customer and looking to purchase a machine they pick up the phone just about every time and will even call you back on the weekends.
“MPG and Tooling”
Most tooling items are currently in stock. We had initially offered Mr. SpeedFreek a refund if he didn’t wish to wait for delivery, but he refused it and opted to have them shipped when they would arrive. The tooling is presently in stock and is available for shipment provided that the Mr. SpeedFreek will return the old warranted parts to Novakon. Mr. SpeedFreek was not “robbed of his money” but rather he still has an outstanding return debt which he never completed.
Again, I was never notified that the tooling and MPG was in STOCK and could not be shipped to me unless I returned Novakons components. If that were the case I would have my tooling and MPG and Novakon would have their components. Why would I want to ruin a relationship with a company over some burned out unusable components and be out my $700?? It seems like this is a POOR effort to make me look bad. In an email conversation with Khai I had asked about my refund or the product and was told they no longer had paypal and the product would be in stock in a few weeks. I agreed to wait for the tooling and MPG. I did not refuse my refund as stated.
“Available Upgrade Kits”
The upgraded kits for both the NM-145 and the NM-200 Series 2 have a substantial improvement in quality and value whose cost exceeds the value of the original VFD and motor of the original machine’s hardware. These kits are available to customers that require an upgrade of a VFD and motor at the owner’s discretion. In order to determine the number of kits required, we are accepting pre-orders at a substantially reduced price. This is a “one time deal” that we are offering to improve the machines to higher capability at a very modest cost. After this order phase will be over, the kits will be available at full price for those that wish not to take this offer at present.
Why is Novakon looking to charge money for a so called “Upgrade“. I don’t need an upgrade, I need a VFD and Motor promised to work my machine. Do any of you that have this problem feel they should take money out of your pocket to pay for something that should have worked when you bought the machine to begin with??? Novakon should incur the cost of their so called upgrade to the customers that need the VFD and Motor replaced due to manufacturing DEFECT under Novakon’s company WARRANTY.
In conclusion, we take our responsibility to our customers very seriously and we try to always fulfill our obligations to satisfy their needs on a daily basis. We regret events such as we are addressing with this post and we trust that any unforeseen event can be turned around provided that both parties wish to work together.
It is hard to work with a party that is not willing to work with you when they have been ignoring you.
I wish to work with you as I have been trying for the last 6 months. How do we proceed??
Erik @ SpeedFreeks
All shipping charges for faulty parts should be borne by Novakon.
Nothing is free, pay now or pay latter. I am fine with the policy as long as it is not in fine prints. In this case, policy is well documented, I did not like it but made the decision based on all the information I had in front of me.
Originally Posted by salzburg
Novakon does not wish to take the position of passing biased information back and forth. We have stated all the pertinent facts and at this point we feel that the best course of action is to proceed on.
We do however ask that in order to make a proper warranty decision we must have the 3 VFD/ motors returned so to determine the nature of the problem and complete a proper assessment at our location.
Presently, there are OEM parts available as required.
Regards,
Novakon Team
Speed freak, I feel for you, been there and done that.
You can always reach them when you looking to buy, but once you get the product and find out it's junk, no more call's answered, no more call's returned, no E mails answered.
I will say, after the first couple of hours of running (very easily as the spindle motor didn't have enough power to go more then 1mm doc with a 0.5" end mill in 6061 alum) and the first spindle motor died, Novakoned did send us a new spindle motor, with us paying the $380 freight.
Then the second one died 2 hours later, another freight bill and motor. 30 minutes more and it died. Last time it was the VFD and we still haven't recieved a replacement, or a phone call or E mail and that was going on a year ago (which was when the mill was a month or so old)
We finally retrofitted a new motor and VFD (at our expense), then had to fix all the other issue's which left us with close to $20,000 into a mill that is still nothing more then a hobby machine.
The motor's and electronic we changed to work great, but we still have the sloppy/flimsy mill.
After looking at what we spent vrs what we have, I got to thinking about everything that was done wrong and how to fix it. Decided to design and build our own mill with the rigidity and power and electronics to actually make parts and we can build a real cnc mill with a 20 tool changer for less then we have into a half ass hobby mill.
We'll probably sell some later this year as well.
Ray
That is a problem with buying anything like this. Its hobby machines at best.
My machine I got lucky with. The problems haven't been bad. Everything I was able to figure out and fix myself at little cost.
Now click on my link below and find a machine that I wasn't so lucky with.
But bottom line, you want a real machine, pay the real price.
I wish I would have bought a used HAAS. Knowing what I know now, I would have waited and suffered another year without a machine and bought a used HAAS or maybe not have waited and bought a used Fadal and saved for a HAAS or something.
My machine does what I want it to, albeit sometimes with more attention needed. So I am not complaining 100%. I just wish I would have had a little more foresight and I would have made a different decision.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/chinese_machines/128856-my_j-cut_nightmare_machine_one.html#post944750
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