newbie question again nm-145

[bob b]

i have enough room for machine in base ment but will only have about 12" from wall at rear of machine. I am concerned that this will be an issue , also will i be able to run the machine somewhat "manualy" till i get familiar with the cnc programing . I guess i mean if i have a piece i need to make and take a couple of thousands off will it take me an 1/2 hour to set up and program ! P.S. am i in way over my head with these issues and will i be sorry i did not just buy plan mill ? space has been an issue thats why i went this route but not knowing a thing about cnc is kinda scary

[tjd10684]

Im in the same boat as you buddy. but when i got my mill the e stop switch was not working so for the first few days more time was spend behind the machine than in front of it. I eventually found the problem (bad crimp on a connector) and fixed it but it was pretty frustrating chasing wires in the back of the machine and i had all the room i needed. Just something to think about. As for manual use yes you can use it while using manual jog its just a little tedious with out a MPG but it can be done and its still better than cranking it by hand.

[JoeBean]

I don't have an nm145, I have the larger nm-200, but the space is needed to access the panel. Some on here have removed the panel, made a few extension cables, and mounted the panel up on the wall to aleviate the space requirement. othrwise, you'll probably want some means of moving the unit out from the wall (eg. a palatte jack) when you need to get to the wires behind the panel.

Typically the panel door can open wide enough with significantly less room thatn is spec'd, but the whole panel swings open too to get to the connections behind it, and that's what requires the space. I don't know what minimally would be needed for your panel door as I don't have the nm145, but others here should know.

Making the extension cables shouldn't be hard if you go that route, given that you have some wiring experience. They really should make a kit to sell with the unit that would allow this as it's a common request.

As for running into electrical gremlins, it's possible, and if you have little experience working with electrical sytems like this it's something to consider. But it's usually not too hard to figure wherethe problem would lie, and there are a lot of people here willing to help.

As for manually machining, as mentioned get a pendant if you want to "spin wheels". It's quite easy to emulate manual actions then - set the spindle speed and start the spindle (usually done through mach3, some pendants allow it as well), select the axis, and spin the wheel to feed it. I have a Homann Design's MP-03 and highly recommend it, but you need to assemble it so it's not for the uninitiated.

Pretty soon, though, you'll get tired of spinning wheels. There are a lot of interactive wizards with mach3 that allow you to do common tasks (eg. facing, pocketing, bolt hole patterns, etc) that are included free, a few that do extra functionality but have to be purchased, and a lot of free ones available here on cnczone and elsewhere. You need to get a machinist calculator to calculate speeds & feeds, or do it manually, and I'd suggest always dry running anything you do as sometimes there are some annoying discrepencies that crop up (eg. some of them will set spindle speed & start the spindle, some won't). I suggest G-Wizard for a calculator, btw, and it's got a free trial. And suppose you have multiple operations you want to do, what then? You can copy the gcode and pretty much paste one after anoher into a text file.

Eventually you'll want to graduate to writing some routines by hand. This sounds harder than it is. Mach3 has an OK set of descriptions of g-code functions built in, but I find emc's documentation better and more convenient to use. It's mostly the same, so agai dry run everything, with your hand on the estop for the first few times. Here's a good reference to print out, and here's something to read and re-read.

Then after doing all that, you'll graduate to CAD/CAM, designing your models and then using software to generate the operations automagically. You might say "why not just do this first?", especially if you already have CAD experience, but for one-odd jobs this tends to be much slower (at least dor me) than using a wizard or writing it myself.

I personally hate running manual machines anymore.

[bob b]

i'm just figuering on if i have a piece i 'm working on and need a couple of .001 taken off it would be eaiser to just use the pendant i really want to learn i am fasinated by all you can do withthese things! also i have a question tormach 's Sptrut cam is that basically the same as on novakon program . Let me rephrase that are they about the same or is one better than the other !

[dbrija]

i'm just figuering on if i have a piece i 'm working on and need a couple of .001 taken off it would be eaiser to just use the pendant i really want to learn i am fasinated by all you can do withthese things! also i have a question tormach 's Sptrut cam is that basically the same as on novakon program . Let me rephrase that are they about the same or is one better than the other !

The version of VisualMill included is 3 axis only. You have to pay an additional price for any 4th axis ($2k), and an even steeper price for 5 axis (another 2K). Sprutcam on the other hand will do 4th, 5th, EDM, and lathe. The $992 price when bought with a PCNC1100 is a heck of a bargain.

You can download the latest version from sprutcam.com for a 30 day trial, and nobody calls you or spams you.

[ihavenofish]

The version of VisualMill included is 3 axis only. You have to pay an additional price for any 4th axis ($2k), and an even steeper price for 5 axis (another 2K). Sprutcam on the other hand will do 4th, 5th, EDM, and lathe. The $992 price when bought with a PCNC1100 is a heck of a bargain.

You can download the latest version from sprutcam.com for a 30 day trial, and nobody calls you or spams you.

sprutcam master which is required for 4th axis machining is $1950.
novakon offers the visual mill 4th axis module for $650.

the version they sell for $992 is pro, which has no 4th or 5th axis ability, and is strictly limited to use on the tormach making it pointless here. its $1500 for use on all machines.

[JoeBean]

sprutcam master which is required for 4th axis machining is $1950.
novakon offers the visual mill 4th axis module for $650.

the version they sell for $992 is pro, which has no 4th or 5th axis ability, and is strictly limited to use on the tormach making it pointless here. its $1500 for use on all machines.

I don't know about Tormach, but I can 2nd the $650 for 4th on the Novakon as I own it. I also haven't ued SprutCAM, so I can't comment on what it's like, but Visual Mill is very easy to use, though their documentation IMO is lacking. Much better than BobCAM that Novakon use to ship IMO.

[bob b]

so did i make a mistake with this machine because of hidden costs ? I now am feeling like i might have the wrong choice! i know this is how they make there money because we all know these programs after the y come out or the chips i should say . I believe after a few years if you can by programing it should be cheaper! I on the other hand had them install 4th axis when they build machine , thinking it would be a savings and is all i would have to do is buy rotary table and it would be good to go . Do i have any options

[dbrija]

sprutcam master which is required for 4th axis machining is $1950.
novakon offers the visual mill 4th axis module for $650.

the version they sell for $992 is pro, which has no 4th or 5th axis ability, and is strictly limited to use on the tormach making it pointless here. its $1500 for use on all machines.

According to the product levels, pro is the full blown version. See the table at the bottom of the page: SprutCAM SprutCAM Your Safe Partner for wire EDM, lathe, milling, turn-mill, 2, 2.5, 3, 4 & 5 axis CNC machining - SPRUT Technology Inc. For a small cost, you can get the "all posts" version. If you buy a Tormach that is....

[dbrija]

i have enough room for machine in base ment but will only have about 12" from wall at rear of machine. I am concerned that this will be an issue , also will i be able to run the machine somewhat "manualy" till i get familiar with the cnc programing . I guess i mean if i have a piece i need to make and take a couple of thousands off will it take me an 1/2 hour to set up and program ! P.S. am i in way over my head with these issues and will i be sorry i did not just buy plan mill ? space has been an issue thats why i went this route but not knowing a thing about cnc is kinda scary

You could consider using these feet to solve the problem: McMaster-Carr There is a ratcheting version that is easier to adjust, and you can just retract the pad and you have a machine on wheels.

[ihavenofish]

According to the product levels, pro is the full blown version. See the table at the bottom of the page: SprutCAM SprutCAM Your Safe Partner for wire EDM, lathe, milling, turn-mill, 2, 2.5, 3, 4 & 5 axis CNC machining - SPRUT Technology Inc. For a small cost, you can get the "all posts" version. If you buy a Tormach that is....

sorry, i mixed up expert and pro. but again, your information is useless as he doesnt own a atormach, isnt buying a tormach, and alread has visual mill making the 4th axis upgrade only $650.

youre just serving to confuse the guy. and besides, visual mill is far and away a better cam software in my experience.

[ihavenofish]

so did i make a mistake with this machine because of hidden costs ? I now am feeling like i might have the wrong choice! i know this is how they make there money because we all know these programs after the y come out or the chips i should say . I believe after a few years if you can by programing it should be cheaper! I on the other hand had them install 4th axis when they build machine , thinking it would be a savings and is all i would have to do is buy rotary table and it would be good to go . Do i have any options

relax, and dont let peoples misguided internet blather confuse you

if youve got the 4th axis, then you have a few options for using it.

1 is to manualy program it for indexing. this is that 99% of people would do with it. program a 3 axis path, index the work to the next side, then cut again in 3 axis mode. this option will cost you nothing extra. you simply add a g code line into the file to flip the axis. this is technically called 3.5 axis milling.

if you want to do full coordinated 4 axis motion, like on a sculpture for example, then you need a 4 axis capable cam software. since you already have visual mill, the easiest and likel best way to do this is buy the 4th axis add on, which is $650. this add on with also automate the 3.5 axis indexed milling.

so there you go.