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  1. #61
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Path Pilot disk includes Linux. On the disk, you will get one version of Path Pilot. Probably a newer version. I would stay satisfied with that version until everything is running like it should. Then you can dabble in trying new updates.

    Lee


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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Quote Originally Posted by Novakon View Post
    Generally speaking, we are pressing forward with the Mach3 Mach Standard Mill (MSM) as the default starting package. MSM has some very nice features we want to retain features such as the Mill Turn feature. The documentation is excellent and it is still being updated as necessary. In combination with the Smooth Stepper (ESS), it has been working well. New mills will be loaded with this controller software very soon. The Torus PRO ATC has been integrated into this controller package and it is inexpensive.

    Mach4 will does work with our mills and it can be purchased from Artsoft at any time. We don't sell the package directly.

    Path Pilot has been used by several customers and seems to work well and fairly easy to install. We may look further at this in time, but it has obvious implications for us.

    We are also looking at the UC300 also, but this is a relatively new product and we will evaluate it more in time.

    We have looked at some commercial grade controllers, but they do become expensive...

    Many options exist and interest seems to vary based on preference and personal experience. If your running Mach3, try MSM. The option is inexpensive and it has a very nice tool library and documentation. Mill Turn is why we are staying with this as a default with Mach3. We will be bringing in more spindle chucks soon to our web store. the spindle chucks have been ordered and you will see them soon.

    Mike has provided some nice examples (Thanks Mike) of the Mill Turn in this link.

    Please review and subscribe to our channel.

    Regards,
    John
    Have you considered the MASSO controller? Eliminate the computer cost, the Mach3 license fee.

    -Dan



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    thanks for this. I have PP cd and the mesa 5i25 card for my NM145 with ShadowSpawn AC motor retrofit. Took a stab at converting to pathpilot a couple months ago and was a complete failure. Got the software installed and mesa card detected but no luck past that. Assuming the nm200 bob and my nm145 bob (I have the latest bob) are the same? If so maybe we can help each other out!



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    t300 - take a look at the other thread by sagreen - "path pilot on Novakon Torus Pro"

    he has all the files that would be good starting point for you.



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    I got got off the phone with John Sandstrom, who had a good suggestion for me with the NM200 and the separate control box.

    Get a separate computer with PCIe slots and mount the Mesa 6I25 in it. Then set that on top of the existing controller and move the DB25 connector attached to the parallel port to the DB25 port on the Mesa card. My old controller then just becomes a box for the BoB and Geckos. It would still need to be powered up for these, but not for any software needs.

    Doing it this way I wouldn't lose use of the mill if the PathPilot conversions runs into snags.



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    You can also simply spend $50 for another HDD, and put PP on that. Swap drives and PP cables to return to Mach3.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    There isn't an extra PCI slot for the Mesa card, so I'd also have to swap it in with the parallel port card. I'm going to price out a basic PC build to see where I'm at. Might go with the Ray solution if it's more than I want to spend. Right now I'm dependent on an obsolete mother board. Going with the separate box, I'd be able at some point to replace the Novakon BoB (from Cnc4PC) with a PCIe card.



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    All sounds very complex.

    Any PC with ethernet port
    XP or W7
    Mach3 .062
    ESS
    2 BoBs
    CNC
    Production work.

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default

    How would any new control software (PathPilot, Centroid etc.) handle the ATC?



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    ATC: custom macros. They should be provided with the ATC.

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Hi Roger,

    Thanks for your reply. I am totally new to all this (both machining and cnc), so please forgive the following clarification;

    So, if I have the macro for the Novatron ATC, any control software will work with it?

    Thanks in advance.



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Hi overtorque

    IF you have a Novatron machine, and IF you are running the SW provided by Novatron, and IF you are using the ATC macros provided by Novatron (and IF you have carefully read the fine manual), then yes, the ATC should work just fine.

    But, if you choose to use some other control SW, then any guarantee from Novatron will be void. To be sure, the Novatron macros may work just fine - I would expect them to do so in fact, but you are outside the Novatron warranty.

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Quote Originally Posted by RCaffin View Post
    Hi overtorque

    IF you have a Novatron machine, and IF you are running the SW provided by Novatron, and IF you are using the ATC macros provided by Novatron (and IF you have carefully read the fine manual), then yes, the ATC should work just fine.

    But, if you choose to use some other control SW, then any guarantee from Novatron will be void. To be sure, the Novatron macros may work just fine - I would expect them to do so in fact, but you are outside the Novatron warranty.

    Cheers
    Roger
    Thanks for your help.

    No, I don't have their mill nor their tool changer, but I have read over the downloadable manual for the mill. I am considering purchasing one.

    I'm just trying to wrap my head around how different control software will handle things other than moving the axis and controlling the spindle.

    Thanks again.



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    how different control software will handle things other than moving the axis and controlling the spindle.
    Ah well - handling things like ATCs is not covered by the NIST g-code Standard. They couldn't cover it becasue it is just too variable.
    But that's OK: it was intended that the g-code itself would be extended by custom macros. The M6 tool-change macro is often used for some of this.

    Perhaps one should say that any vendor of an ATC would have to supply at least the basic macros, with the proviso that the customer might have to work on the integration of both the HW and the SW.

    Somewhere here there is a thread on the design and development of an ATC for the Tormach. Could be worth reading it.

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Right. For instance Tormach's ATC was working under mach 3, and I think it may be plug and play with a tick box checked in Path Pilot.
    Ray's is designed for Mach 3 and maybe a couple other controllers. He may develop one for his under Path Pilot too, but not sure there. He really surpassed the toddler with hammer testing repeatedly for days and days for Mach 3. Pretty sure such durability and fault testing would have to be done with each controller it would work on.
    Since they all operate differently, no one can know unless the specifics are known about controllers, software and hardware.
    It was too much for me and because I had to have an ATC and quickly, I bought one that works out of the box. It is mounted on a Haas Mini mill.

    Lee


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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Ray clearly has code for Mach3 that integrates to the M6 macro. Assuming he shares the details I would expect that PP could be integrated, esp. since Tormach does support a tool changer.

    There are two "issues" that must be dealt with. The first is mapping tool numbers to slot numbers in the carrousel. In PP this is done as the tool is loaded. The second is activating the changer to remove the current tool from the spindle and restore it to the carrousel, then moving the carrousel to the proper position and mounting the requested tool. I suspect that the latter part can be handled by signalling pins in the BoB.

    PP's logic for managing the toolchanger is implemented in a python file that is distributed with the PP disc.



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    There are absolutely NO standards whatsoever for how an ATC gets integrated into a CNC controller. Every single controller is different. With some, like Mach, it is relatively straight-forward and "open", PROVIDED whoever is doing the integration is proficient in programming. It can be done using Cypress Basic macros, or a dedicated plug-in, written in c++. For the UCCNC controllers, it's done with a plug-in written in c#. For LinuxCNC/PathPilot, it would most likely be done using Python. For some, like the Centroid Acorn, it simply CAN'T be done.

    In any case, there is a WIDE range of option when implementing an ATC. The bare minimum support required is a functioning M6. Without that, an ATC is useless. After that, you can add support for logical-to-physical tool mapping, automatic tool-length measurement, extensive error handling, etc., etc. Handling the M6 *may* be as little as a few days work. Doing the "full monty" is months of work coding and testing.

    The Novakon ATC current supports Mach3 (using virtually any screen set), as well as MachStdMill (which is the recommended interface, due to its vastly better functionality). It may, or may not, support UCCNC and/or PathPilot, if there is enough demand to justify the time, effort and expense. There is also a stand-alone Windows application that implements most of the functionality of the full MachStdMill ATC interface, allowing full control of the ATC without needing to be coupled to CNC controller. as well as a second application intended for debugging and tuning the ATC, including servo PID tuning, firmware updating, interactive manual communications with the ATC, etc.

    The ATC itself is very flexible and versatile, supporting a wide variety of interfaces, including USB, RS232, Ethernet, and even a hard-wired TTL-level interface requiring only four wires (this is the one I use with my KFlop). Since the ATC itself is quite intelligent, its performance and reliability are effectively completely uncoupled from the controller. The controller does nothing more than send high-level commands, and wait for a response from the ATC. That response will indicate whether the command was successful, and, if not, exactly what went wrong. As long as the appropriate communications protocol is obeyed by the controller, the ATC will work just as reliably with any controller as it does with Mach3.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    The voice of experience there, Ray!

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Quote Originally Posted by SCzEngrgGroup View Post
    There are absolutely NO standards whatsoever for how an ATC gets integrated into a CNC controller. Every single controller is different. With some, like Mach, it is relatively straight-forward and "open", PROVIDED whoever is doing the integration is proficient in programming. It can be done using Cypress Basic macros, or a dedicated plug-in, written in c++. For the UCCNC controllers, it's done with a plug-in written in c#. For LinuxCNC/PathPilot, it would most likely be done using Python. For some, like the Centroid Acorn, it simply CAN'T be done.

    In any case, there is a WIDE range of option when implementing an ATC. The bare minimum support required is a functioning M6. Without that, an ATC is useless. After that, you can add support for logical-to-physical tool mapping, automatic tool-length measurement, extensive error handling, etc., etc. Handling the M6 *may* be as little as a few days work. Doing the "full monty" is months of work coding and testing.

    The Novakon ATC current supports Mach3 (using virtually any screen set), as well as MachStdMill (which is the recommended interface, due to its vastly better functionality). It may, or may not, support UCCNC and/or PathPilot, if there is enough demand to justify the time, effort and expense. There is also a stand-alone Windows application that implements most of the functionality of the full MachStdMill ATC interface, allowing full control of the ATC without needing to be coupled to CNC controller. as well as a second application intended for debugging and tuning the ATC, including servo PID tuning, firmware updating, interactive manual communications with the ATC, etc.

    The ATC itself is very flexible and versatile, supporting a wide variety of interfaces, including USB, RS232, Ethernet, and even a hard-wired TTL-level interface requiring only four wires (this is the one I use with my KFlop). Since the ATC itself is quite intelligent, its performance and reliability are effectively completely uncoupled from the controller. The controller does nothing more than send high-level commands, and wait for a response from the ATC. That response will indicate whether the command was successful, and, if not, exactly what went wrong. As long as the appropriate communications protocol is obeyed by the controller, the ATC will work just as reliably with any controller as it does with Mach3.

    Regards,
    Ray L.
    Thanks for the insight, Ray (and others). From some reading around here, I'm guessing you are the developer of the ATC and PDB for the Torus Pro?

    Do you know whether the ATC will work with Mach 4 (without extensive reprogramming)?

    I'm curious why Mach 4 hasn't caught on the way 3 did? Everyone knows that development has ended for 3 and 4 keeps improving. From my limited understanding, it sounds like Artsoft is developing Mach 4 to be an industrial solution. I'm also curious as to why Novakon has not moved to Mach 4?

    Of course I am totally new to all this....



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Ray would have to rewrite the macros for the ATC: Mach3 used Crystal Basic and Mach4 uses LUA. LUA is written in a form of C, and seems to be a rather generic C/Basic/whatever language. Some work involved, and a lot more testing involved. Also, Ray would need a machine running Mach4 for the testing. Ha - ask Ray: it has been an extended saga getting this far.

    Why hasn't the world run to Mach4? Several reasons.
    * I am still not sure whether Mach4 implements everything that Mach3 does yet. It takes time ... a lot more than was promised at the start. And yet, since many depend on their machine, it is obvious that moving to Mach4 prematurely might be an embarrassing mistake.
    * If Mach3 does what the user needs, and Mach4 may or may not able to replace Mach3 yet, why spend the money? I suspect there might have been many more early adopters, or at least beta-testers, if the upgrade from Mach3 to Mach4 had been nearly free. You should note that despite all the hoorah, there are still tens of thousands of fairly happy Mach3 users.

    Cheers
    Roger



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Whats the latest on control software?

Whats the latest on control software?