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  1. #81
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    I'm curious why Mach 4 hasn't caught on the way 3 did?
    For a lot of reasons.

    1) When Mach4 was first released, after nearly 5 years of development, most of the Mach3 "power users" that were eagerly awaiting it were shocked to see the state that it was in. We were told that it was nearly ready, and received what appeared to be a very early beta, with a fraction of the features that Mach3 had. About a year later, it became available for purchase. At this time, most thought it was still 6-12 months away from being finished. 3 years later, it's still not finished, in many people's opinion.

    2) It's far more complicated to setup and use than Mach3. One reason for this is that Mach4 is far more powerful and flexible than Mach3. But to do that, the developers made many functions available through Lua scripting. So in Mach4, many things that were vailable in Mach3, must now be created by the user, using Lua scripts.

    3) 3rd party hardware. Mach4 no longer uses the parallel port (except for the very basic Darwin plugin). It's use relies on hardware developed by third parties, and the plugins that interface the hardware to Mach4. Many of Mach4's features are handled by the plugins. What this means is that a given feature will only work if the plugin developers have implemented it in their plugins. If a new feature gets added to Mach4 that depends on the plugin, you may have to wait for your plugin to support it.

    These and other reasons are why a large number of longtime Mach3 users have moved on to other controls, rather than wait for Mach4 to become what they'd hoped it would be.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  2. #82
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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    I tried to get my mill running on Mach4 using the Darwin plugin. While I was able to get the axes moving, the spindle was intractable. With the knowledge gained in my PathPilot conversion I believe I now know what the issue was.

    I am running Mach4 on my small-CNC lathe. The main problem I have is that it relies on the tool table for setting X0, and with a QCTP that doesn't work for me. I can't take a skim cut, measure the diameter, and then type the radius into the X DRO. Instead I have to zero the X DRO move the tool in the amount of the radius, and rezero X. Irritating, and Barker is immune to suggestions to allow the DRO to be made enterable. I also don't like a lot of the GUI; the PathPilot layout is much superior in my opinion. I don't use the lathe much so will just deal with it.



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Quote Originally Posted by Overtorque View Post
    Thanks for the insight, Ray (and others). From some reading around here, I'm guessing you are the developer of the ATC and PDB for the Torus Pro?

    Do you know whether the ATC will work with Mach 4 (without extensive reprogramming)?

    I'm curious why Mach 4 hasn't caught on the way 3 did? Everyone knows that development has ended for 3 and 4 keeps improving. From my limited understanding, it sounds like Artsoft is developing Mach 4 to be an industrial solution. I'm also curious as to why Novakon has not moved to Mach 4?

    Of course I am totally new to all this....
    I think Ger answered most of your question. I know nobody who is using Mach4, and have no plans to support it. Among the larger problems with Mach4 is that support for third-party motion controllers is lacking, and some vendors have nearly given up, after having several Mach4 updates that made internal changes that required them to do major re-writes of their plug-ins. My personal impression is that Mach4 is a "dead man walking", as it has missed its window. There are now several other options available, that are ready right now, and getting much more actively updated and supported. From all I've seen and heard, it appears PathPilot is perhaps the best current option, with UCCNC being not far behind. I have been using a KFlop with a controller app I wrote myself for almost 5 years, and it has been bullet-proof. I plan on trying PathPilot when I have the time, and would also like to try UCCNC with the UC300.

    That said, it would not be difficult for an end-user who can handle a little Lua programming to make the ATC work under Mach4. The bare minimum support required is toolchange support, which is quite straight-forward. This requires implementing a simple protocol that communicates over a virtual COM port or Ethernet (Ethernet is recommended), that needs to only implement a single simple command/response transaction. All the rest (configuration, homing, setting up tool mapping, etc.) can be handled either using the ATC front panel, or using the stand-alone control panel application. Perhaps not as aesthetically pleasing as having it all integrated into the controller, but more than usable, and supports the full functionality of the ATC.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    A convincing demonstration of Darwinian evolution.

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Quote Originally Posted by RCaffin View Post
    A convincing demonstration of Darwinian evolution.

    Cheers
    Roger
    Well, as far as the evolution of cnc control software is concerned!

    I must thank all who've replied to my questions. I was going to buy Mach 4. Is the feeling that it is a "dead man walking" prevalent among cnc'ers? If it is, one must conclude that Mach 3 is also a "dead man", because of the lack of updates and the progression of operating systems.

    I have a question regarding some of the higher priced Centroid products (>$1,500).

    Are these regarded as good, stable products?

    Another question about LinuxCNC; Is it stable for turning?

    Besides the others mentioned (Tormach PP (Linux) and UCCNC), could someone recommend me a stable and well supported control software for a Novatron Torus Pro (when I get it) and a 14" x 40" lathe cnc conversion?

    Thanks in advance, once again.



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    one must conclude that Mach 3 is also a "dead man", because of the lack of updates and the progression of operating systems.
    Well, it is not quite that simple.
    Maybe Mach4 will get there in the end. Certainly, Artsoft has a huge imperative to get there, but right now they seem a bit bogged.

    But to say that Mach3 is a dead man ... that's a bit like saying that XP and Windows 7 are dead men. Yes, to be sure, there have been later releases of both product lines, but it is notable that both XP and W7 continue to be used quite happily by hundreds of thousands of users around the world. In fact, one could also compare Windows 10 to Mach4 in some ways: both have been much trumpeted by the vendors, but users don't seem to be in a hurry to switch. Never forget: there are thousands of Mach3 users running very happily today, and there is a very large user support community, here and at Artsoft.

    Yes, I am biased: I have been running Mach3 on XP and now on W7 in a semi-production manner, for some years.

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    PathPilot works great on CNC lathe conversion. I did my Grizzly G0604 and it worked like a champ.

    I can help you somewhat along the way if you need.



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    If it is, one must conclude that Mach 3 is also a "dead man", because of the lack of updates and the progression of operating systems.
    Unless you are already using Mach3, there's really no reason that anyone should be buying it today, with so many better options available.



    In fact, one could also compare Windows 10 to Mach4 in some ways: both have been much trumpeted by the vendors, but users don't seem to be in a hurry to switch.

    ??????

    The majority of the world switched to Windows 10 last year, when it was a free upgrade.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Quote Originally Posted by RCaffin View Post
    But to say that Mach3 is a dead man ... that's a bit like saying that XP and Windows 7 are dead men.
    ALL work on Mach3 stopped at least 5 years ago. There have been, and will never be, even as much as a single bug fix for Mach3, despite its many long-standing bugs.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



  10. #90
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Mach 3 will be a viable controller indefinitely on system running a version of Windows that plays well with it. Glitchy, sometimes on some computers, but not everyone will see those depending on what other hardware and software is being used. It is not bullet proof, but if you don't go picking fights you could survive without a scratch.

    Mach 3 is also only as strong as the computer running it. If it has issues, you can bet Mach 3 will too. Optimizing Windows for Mach 3 should be the very first thing you do. That means stripping out everything. Barebone Windows. No network, sleep settings, power savers, screen savers, anti-virus, Cam packages, solitaire, facebook etc.
    Mach 3 should really be the only software other than Windows on that computer. Once this is accomplished and tested, then you have a Mach 3 controller.
    Otherwise you just have a PC with Mach 3 installed.

    That said, I do still use Mach 3 on two machines. One uses Smooth stepper now and the other will soon. SS not without it's own set of issues at times.
    I am still actively looking of better solutions and will implement them one day maybe. Until then, the machines still get the job done. Most of the time without any problems.

    Lee


  11. #91
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Using a motion controller with Mach3 "should" take the PC out of the equatiion.

    One uses Smooth stepper now and the other will soon. SS not without it's own set of issues at times.
    Then why would you buy another one??

    I am still actively looking of better solutions and will implement them one day maybe.
    Look at UCCNC. it "feels" very similar to Mach3, but without all the bugs. They develop their own hardware and software, so you don't have plugin issues like you do with Mach3 and the ESS. Software and firmware are always in sync.
    If you find a bug, it's usually fixed in a few days.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  12. #92
    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Using a motion controller with Mach3 "should" take the PC out of the equatiion.



    Then why would you buy another one??



    Look at UCCNC. it "feels" very similar to Mach3, but without all the bugs. They develop their own hardware and software, so you don't have plugin issues like you do with Mach3 and the ESS. Software and firmware are always in sync.
    If you find a bug, it's usually fixed in a few days.
    Thanks, Gerry.
    I bought a new system because of the Plug and Play aspect. CRP Nema 23 system. I have built enough machines now to know that I dislike building the electrical panels more than I dislike having Mach 3 mess up a part every now and them.
    Since two of my machines currently use Path Pilot, it would be my first choice for the router and plasma. It can handle the router easy enough with a different PC. Running it with a laptop now. Not sure how it would handle THC though.
    Also both would need some fiddling in the CRP plug and play box to bypass the SS. There goes the plug and play.
    So Mach 3 it is for now.

    I do have the parts on hand now to automate my manual spring coiler. I am researching control options for it now. I have a bunch of Arduino stuff, but have barely done much to learn how to use it yet. Pretty straight forward stuff though once I have a set direction and hardware needs. Considering Mach 3 too, but would like to get rid of the computer. I will check out UCCNC as well.

    It will be using the same size wire and making the same left and right torsion springs all the time, so a computer really is not needed.

    Lee


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Whats the latest on control software?

Whats the latest on control software?