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    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    But it is still limited to 4 axes, while more modern systems (inc Mach3) are 6 axes.
    So you consider 10+ year old software to be "more modern" than a brand new package?

    It seems to be the flavour of the month to be bashing Mach3 all the time.
    Nobody mentioned Mach3, but imo, people are pointing out it's weaknesses, not bashing it. Just because a lot of people use it doesn't make it the best. Most people new to CNC are still buying it. But today, virtually all of Mach3's competitors are better.

    The max pulse rate is 400 kHz
    Most stepper drives won't work with pulse rated higher than 200Khz. So, unless you are using servos, it's a moot point. If you need 2Mhz, buy something else.

    Gerry

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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Hi Gerry

    Point taken about the dates. I expressed myself poorly. It's not the dates of the chips; it's the philosophy.

    The Centroid stuff seems to be following an older philosophy and a far more expensive one too. Yes, the Acorn has seriously reduced the cost compared to their other offerings, and that is good. But it is still only 3 axes, while the main competitors are 6 axis. Well, that is what the spec page says: 3 axes only.
    The lathe version does not offer threading - really? The Acorn offers a single work coordinate system (G54) rather than the full number (256?) you can get in a PC-based system. That is probably a limitation of the Beagle Bone SW in that ARM chip. You are limited to a 50kbyte g-code program in the Acorn. Coordinate system rotation is 'manual' - whatever that means. I suspect it means that G51 is not supported. The limitations go on.

    GigaHertz PCs are CHEAP and well suited to doing the trajectory planning and the UI, plus handling all those more esoteric g-codes, while external FPGAs are far more suited to hammering out the pulses absolutely dead on time. The cost of (say) Mach3, an ESS, a BoB or two and several Gecko drivers is down in the hundreds of dollars. The same applies to several other brands such as UCCNC etc. This 'new' approach to CNC control supercedes the older philosophy and has brought huge price competition - which is after all one of the major reasons why Hobby CNC has boomed. We can now afford it! (Which is why Art started Mach.)

    It has been said many times in the tech arena: If you don't cannibalize your own products with new ones, someone else will.
    I think the Red Queen said something similar.

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    I'd be interested in a retrofit to my NM200 if everything were packaged into a plug&play box. Then all I'd need to do is buy/make adapters for the Novakon cables. The PC packaged with the control software and a touch screen looks good as well.

    Mach3 works well with my mill, but the PP interface limits my rapids to 75 ipm, and I occasionally get hangs that require a restart. The mill was new in 2010 but doesn't get more than 100 hours of spindle timer per year.



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Quote Originally Posted by kvom View Post
    I...the PP interface limits my rapids to 75 ipm, and I occasionally get hangs that require a restart.
    You need to explain that. There is absolutely nothing in PP that limits your feedrates to such a low value, and there is certainly nothing in the hardware that does so. My Torus Pro came with steppers, and I ran them at 350IPM with zero problems until I switched to AC servos.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Quote Originally Posted by kvom View Post
    I'd be interested in a retrofit to my NM200 if everything were packaged into a plug&play box. Then all I'd need to do is buy/make adapters for the Novakon cables. The PC packaged with the control software and a touch screen looks good as well.

    Mach3 works well with my mill, but the PP interface limits my rapids to 75 ipm, and I occasionally get hangs that require a restart. The mill was new in 2010 but doesn't get more than 100 hours of spindle timer per year.
    You can edit your ini file to adjust rapids in PP.

    Steve



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    My post was inexact. PP=printer port, and the actual limitation on rapids is the motherboard used in the control box; machine is a 7 y/o NM200, not a Torus.



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Quote Originally Posted by kvom View Post
    My post was inexact. PP=printer port, and the actual limitation on rapids is the motherboard used in the control box; machine is a 7 y/o NM200, not a Torus.
    Yeah, PP has a lot of possible CNC related name collisions:

    PathPilot
    Parallel Port
    PostProcessor



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    I was excited when I heard centroid, but only 1 offset and code size limitation ?. Definitely a deal killer for me.



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    You just have to spend more. ($99 gets you 6 and $499 gets you 18)

    Quote Originally Posted by AUSTINMACHINING View Post
    I was excited when I heard centroid, but only 1 offset and code size limitation ?. Definitely a deal killer for me.




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    Quote Originally Posted by kvom View Post
    I'd be interested in a retrofit to my NM200 if everything were packaged into a plug&play box. Then all I'd need to do is buy/make adapters for the Novakon cables. The PC packaged with the control software and a touch screen looks good as well.

    Mach3 works well with my mill, but the PP interface limits my rapids to 75 ipm, and I occasionally get hangs that require a restart. The mill was new in 2010 but doesn't get more than 100 hours of spindle timer per year.
    Kvom,

    Path pilot is pretty much plug and play. You have to buy a mesa board, buy the path pilot DVD, install the software and Mesa board, overwrite 4 files and you are up and running. Between my torus files and Brian's pulsar files, you should have everything you need. From my short time working with it, it's already world's better than the mach3 install I was using. I honestly can't find a single thing I like about mach3 better. Updates to the software are coming at a regular basis and tormach is doing a great job with YouTube videos that show you how to use it.

    Scott...

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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    The NM200 controller is (probably) different than that of the Torus and is a separate box. I suspect I'd need to get the Torus electronics as a starting point.

    In the ideal world I would sell the NM200 and then buy a Pulsar with the ATC and do the PathPilot conversion.



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    To save me from reading back through the entire thread. I have a torus pro. It does some weird stuff and I'm thinking path pilot might be the way to go. I know I need to buy the mesa card. Do I need any additional hardware? Can I used the Novakon supplied motherboard and ethernet smooth stepper?

    For information I have never been happy with mach 3. It does weird random things. It sometimes seems to just wipe out the work offsets. One time I was doing a production run. I was using the vise jaws as my X-Y zero. Run the code, switch blanks then run the code again. On about the 10th part it went to X-Y zero then paused. The cutter then lifted and went completely off to the right side of the vise and began cutting air. This was the oddest thing it did but many other smaller things had me constantly wondering it I was doing something wrong.

    Tom



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    Gold Member LeeWay's Avatar
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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Novakon MB? Yes. Smooth Stepper? No.

    Lee


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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Thanks LeeWay. Does the MESA card replace the need for a parallel port?



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Right. No need for a Parallel Port on the motherboard with a Mesa card installed. That means virtually any new computer should work fine.

    Lee


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    Quote Originally Posted by upnorth View Post
    To save me from reading back through the entire thread. I have a torus pro. It does some weird stuff and I'm thinking path pilot might be the way to go. I know I need to buy the mesa card. Do I need any additional hardware? Can I used the Novakon supplied motherboard and ethernet smooth stepper?

    For information I have never been happy with mach 3. It does weird random things. It sometimes seems to just wipe out the work offsets. One time I was doing a production run. I was using the vise jaws as my X-Y zero. Run the code, switch blanks then run the code again. On about the 10th part it went to X-Y zero then paused. The cutter then lifted and went completely off to the right side of the vise and began cutting air. This was the oddest thing it did but many other smaller things had me constantly wondering it I was doing something wrong.

    Tom
    Yep! Exactly why I ran from Mach3 recently. Its just unpredictable, and I am getting tired of ruining parts for no good reason.

    I'll start a new "PathPilot on Novakon Torus" thread tonight with all of my files as a starting point. I dont have them exactly where I want them, but im making chips and its better having more than one person tweaking to get the ini and hal files in order.

    Short story is you buy a Mesa 5i25 or 6i25 depending on if you have PCI or PCI express bus slots available. You will need a 25pin parallel male to male cable to hook the Mesa to your existing novakon BoB. You unhook the ESS and leave it installed behind the existing bob. No need to pull it out of the machine. You need to buy the PathPilot DVD from Tormach. You can call them and order the part number thats somewhere else in this thread. My quick tutorial that I put in the new thread will get you up and running quick as long as you havent done any modding of your pin config for the Torus BoB.

    Scott...



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Based on the above, it seems like my CD100 NM20 controller might be amenable to conversion. Looking at the connectors, it seems that it has a PP card connected to the BOB with the double male connector, and then a further male connector leading to the machine. I don't know the motherboard type, but I'm sure John could tell me.

    So if I understand the difference, currently the CPU is generating timing pulses under interrupt control, and that's what limits my rapids. On the Torus, the pulses are generated by the smooth stepper, and with Path Pilot the Mesa card does so.

    Given that Path Pilot runs under Unix, I probably should buy a basic Unix desktop computer with the same type motherboard and move the cards from the CD100 to the new one.



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    I'm using an old motherboard from a an unused PC I had in my basement. I have no idea how old it is but the bios date on boot up is something like 2006. It has 1.5 GB of ram and it runs version 1.98 of PathPilot just fine. It has never crashed and I have been using PathPilot for more than a year. I bet you can pick up a free motherboard from a recycling drop off center in your area to test pathpilot, leaving your original Mach3 setup intact. I did purchase a new SSD.

    I think I have read somewhere that PathPilot version 2.0 will require updated hardware.

    Steve

    Steve



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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    Quote Originally Posted by sagreen View Post
    Yep! Exactly why I ran from Mach3 recently. Its just unpredictable, and I am getting tired of ruining parts for no good reason.

    I'll start a new "PathPilot on Novakon Torus" thread tonight with all of my files as a starting point. I dont have them exactly where I want them, but im making chips and its better having more than one person tweaking to get the ini and hal files in order.

    Short story is you buy a Mesa 5i25 or 6i25 depending on if you have PCI or PCI express bus slots available. You will need a 25pin parallel male to male cable to hook the Mesa to your existing novakon BoB. You unhook the ESS and leave it installed behind the existing bob. No need to pull it out of the machine. You need to buy the PathPilot DVD from Tormach. You can call them and order the part number thats somewhere else in this thread. My quick tutorial that I put in the new thread will get you up and running quick as long as you havent done any modding of your pin config for the Torus BoB.

    Scott...
    Thanks for this sagreen. I put milling on hold for quite a while now. I was away for the first 5 months of the year with work and when I got home I just did not want to deal with Mach 3. With it becoming more common to install path pilot I think its time to give it a go. I'll figure out what for of port I have then order the MESA crd to get started.

    I just had a quick look I think my motherboard has both PCI and PCI express.

    Tom

    Last edited by upnorth; 08-16-2017 at 12:01 PM.


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    Default Re: Whats the latest on control software?

    I removed the cover from my NM200 control box and took the attached pictures.

    The motherboard slots are PCI, not PCIe. One slot has a small parallel port card that's looped back to the card containing the BoB. This card is mechanically attached to the mounts for the 4 Gecko drives whose outputs are routed to a 3rd 25 pin connector. The rest of the box seems to be PC stuff, although there's a large transformer that I assume allows for both US and EU power.

    So it would seem I need to find/build a machine with a PCI motherboard, and just move the BoB/Gecko stuff to it. Then add the Mesa PCI card and interconnect. The rest is just software.

    Also, does the PathPilot install its version of Linux, or does it need a separate install ahead of time?

    Whats the latest on control software?-large-jpg

    Whats the latest on control software?-large-jpg

    Whats the latest on control software?-large-jpg

    One question of importance is whether the BoB used on the NM200 is the same as that on the Torus, so the the pins match up.



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Whats the latest on control software?

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