nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

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Thread: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

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    Default nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    Hi all. I have a nm145 with cteufert's VFD and motor upgrade. In 2014 my shop was broken into and mill PC was stolen, haven't used mill since. I want to get back at it so need to build a new PC but am thinking of ditching mach3 as it was fine but still flaky. In 2014 I remember a lot of guys seemed to be interested in LinuxCNC. Now I see a bunch going to PathPilot. I want something stable and reliable, but don't want to spend a million hours getting it working, my life is too busy these days. What route would you recommend? Anyone offer a mach4/linuxcnc/PP 'package' that can get me up and running in short order?

    thanks all. feels good to be getting back into the mill!

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    Default Re: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    PP is the best! I think most of the painful parts have been worked out so you should be up and running fairly quickly.



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    Default Re: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    thanks Brian! Research here tells me mesa 5i25/6i25 card depending on slot type. Just read another post here though saying Tormach is no longer selling PP on their site? So us non Tormach owners are out of luck?



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    Default Re: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    I'm looking to get away from mach3 by going with the masso by Hind Technology



    Don't have to be too bright to be me :)
    bluehandsvideo on youtube


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    Default Re: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    Quote Originally Posted by t300 View Post
    thanks Brian! Research here tells me mesa 5i25/6i25 card depending on slot type. Just read another post here though saying Tormach is no longer selling PP on their site? So us non Tormach owners are out of luck?
    Not sure I heard mixed opinions on this.

    I bought mine legit last yr but it may be around in other less legit places



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    Default Re: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    A very common rig has WXP, Mach3 .062, ESS, BoBs, and appropriate drivers for motors. Mine are DC servos; others use steppers.

    Cheers
    Rpger



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    Default Re: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    Quote Originally Posted by t300 View Post
    thanks Brian! Research here tells me mesa 5i25/6i25 card depending on slot type. Just read another post here though saying Tormach is no longer selling PP on their site? So us non Tormach owners are out of luck?
    I heard this too but as right now, it's still available on the Tormach site. PP is just linuxCNC with some tailoring for Tormach-specific products so if you're after a stable platform, there's the way to go if PP gets difficult to aquire. In either case, there's a fair bit of programming/setup that needs to be done to get either to talk to your machine.

    The Mach products have massive support available and if you've been using it, that might be the fastest way to getting up and running. It's flaky though largely because it runs under WIndows and all the background stuff going on means if you haven't had problems, you will. My router still occasionally stops in the middle of a run with no indication why. I've learned to breakup my projects into little chunks of code so I don't have to start from scratch to recover.

    I have 7 machines running a mix of M3, LinuxCNC and PP. M3 will throw you a surprise now and then, I wont use it on anything valuable or time laden but on the CNC router its OK. LinuxCNC runs my lathe and laser cutter. PathPilot on my Tormach 1100.. those are rock-solid stable and reliable. I had one 3 hours run on the mill that was so stable I dozed off while watching it and had a nice 2 hour nap

    Automated Machinery Designer - PCNC1100 Series III upgrade, Graziano Sag 12 Lathe
    Solidworks 2016 (SW Certified), HSMWorks


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    Default Re: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPlaneDoc View Post
    I heard this too but as right now, it's still available on the Tormach site. )
    I'll call them later today but doesn't appear to be. The link to purchase their PP Restore DVD requires a valid tormach SN and their FAQ says

    7. Can I get PathPilot for my non-Tormach machine?

    PathPilot upgrade kits are intended for Tormach Machine Controllers only. At this time we are not offering PathPilot for use with third party machines, converted mills, or homemade CNC machines.

    https://www.tormach.com/pathpilot.ht...nmachine-owner

    Either way I just ordered a Mesa 5i25 so if I can't get PP then I'll try LinuxCNC



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    Default Re: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    It's flaky though largely because it runs under WIndows and all the background stuff going on means if you haven't had problems, you will.
    Mach3 is not flaky because of Windows. It's flaky because it has a lot of bugs, and development stopped 5 years ago. There are several Windows controls that don't have the issues that Mach3 has.

    Gerry

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    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
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    Default Re: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    By many reports (here and on the Tormach forum), Tormach will no longer sell the PathPilot CD to anyone who does not possess a valid Tormach machine serial number on which it will be run.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Default Re: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    It's flaky though largely because it runs under WIndows and all the background stuff going on means if you haven't had problems, you will.
    I will respectfully disagree. I find it quite stable IF treated properly.
    WXP, Mach3 .062, ESS, BoBs, ...
    But the PC is NOT on any network, is NOT running any unnecessary background tasks, and the whole thing is well-grounded. I can run for 8 hours without any problems at all, while holding tolerances of microns.

    Yes, Mach3 has some internal unpatchable bugs - design faults actually. But if you don't nest the subroutines too deeply, and take care with a couple of other g-code instructions, it runs for production use.

    Cheers
    Roger
    PS: snoozing while running is easy: I have a good chair. I do an auto-wake-up when the program ends.



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    Default Re: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    Quote Originally Posted by RCaffin View Post
    It's flaky though largely because it runs under WIndows and all the background stuff going on means if you haven't had problems, you will.
    I will respectfully disagree. I find it quite stable IF treated properly.
    WXP, Mach3 .062, ESS, BoBs, ...
    But the PC is NOT on any network, is NOT running any unnecessary background tasks, and the whole thing is well-grounded. I can run for 8 hours without any problems at all, while holding tolerances of microns.

    Yes, Mach3 has some internal unpatchable bugs - design faults actually. But if you don't nest the subroutines too deeply, and take care with a couple of other g-code instructions, it runs for production use.

    Cheers
    Roger
    PS: snoozing while running is easy: I have a good chair. I do an auto-wake-up when the program ends.
    So, it works for you, so therefor any one who has trouble has done something wrong? Do you understand the meaning of "anecdotal evidence"?

    I used Mach3 for nearly 10 years, on several different machines, and had problems with all of them. I spent MONTHS working wit1-on-1 with both Brian Barker (Mr. Mach3) and Greg Cary (Mr. SmoothStepper) to try and find several serious bugs, to no avail.

    The fact is, Mach3 is just unpredictable. It is a total crap-shoot. It will work just fine on some machines, and much less so on others, and the reasons are often simply unknowable. Even if a bug is identified, it will never get fixed, as Mach3 development stopped completely several years ago. I worked with PP, SmoothStepper (both USB and Ethernet) and KFlop, with steppers and DC servos, and on at least 4 different PCs and drive electronics. I had varying degrees of problems with all of them. There werewhole days I'd get almost no work done, because Mach3 would just do weird things, like suddenly decide to do a rapid to China in Z in the middle of a peck drilling cycle. The exact same hardware has worked absolutely flawlessly for years after I switched to KFlop and a custom CNC controller app.

    I'd be looking at the UCNC products, or LinuxCNC...

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Default Re: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    Hi Ray
    Yes, I do understand about evidence. I have a lifetime of working as a research scientist.

    We know that some of us can have a Mach3 system running smoothly for days on end, so Mach3 can be reliable. We have hard evidence of that.
    In such a case one could profitably look elsewhere in the whole CNC system for a source of a failure. There might be problems in the PC or the Windows installation; there might be problems in the CNC power supply or driver electronics, or even in the CNC hardware. There might even be a problem with the Mach3 settings, as found in the XML file. Me, i have found and fixed many problems in my system outside Mach3.

    Yes, Mach3 development stopped years ago. So? WXP development stopped years ago as well, but there are hundrds of thousands of WXP machines still runing happily. W7 has the same story. SW does not suddenly cease to be reliable because someone stopped tweaking the code. Ha - sometimes it becomes more reliable! That's why we run .062 rather than the later .066.

    To say that Mach3 is 'just unpredictable' is therefore a leap too far. You cannot put all the blame on just one part of a very large and complex system.

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    My .02 on mach3 after 3 years.
    I've certainly had some wierd issues with it not remembering G54 Z zero when touching off a new location. The most repeatable problem is inability to maintain the programmed feed rate after random amount of run time. When I'm running production, usually after 3 hours, the mill starts data starving and shaking. The display feed rate set point could be 100IPM but is shaking along at 10ipm. The only way to cure it is to reboot. On occasion, it will start data starving after only 5 minutes. So if it's a pc problem, mach problem , whatever, bottom line is its not reliable for production IMO. I make it work, but you get what you pay for and it is cheap. My son uses Linux and claims he's never had the weird issues I have with mach, so if I can ever stop making parts long enough , I'll check it out.



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    Default Re: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    thanks all. If I understand correctly the firmware for the mesa card needs to match the specific BOB in use? Not at my shop to check, is the nm145 BOB the same as other novakon models?

    Parts on their way, in the meantime I'll get a pc built and dump a copy of mach on it.



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    Default Re: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    Hi Austin

    Out of curiosity, what is the full config you are running? PC, OS, everything, inc servos.
    I ask because that sort of data starvation sounds really, really wierd.
    Question: when it staggers along at 10 ipm instead of 100, what are the DROs doing?

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RCaffin View Post
    Hi Austin

    Out of curiosity, what is the full config you are running? PC, OS, everything, inc servos.
    I ask because that sort of data starvation sounds really, really wierd.
    Question: when it staggers along at 10 ipm instead of 100, what are the DROs doing?

    Cheers
    Roger
    I'm running the machine as delivered from the mfr. (Novakon) Windows XP running servos. The DRO shows the actual feedrate of 10ish ipm (bouncing around +/- 10%). Sometimes it's 20,or,30 IPM. This is also during straight line x y moves (not 3d surfacing). Sometimes I can run most the day without issue, but others are a PITA. I've looked at the task manager when it's happening, but nothing obvious shows up. I also had one serious problem that I did diagnose and correct. I'm using a VistaCNC pendant which I could not live without, BUT, if I accidentally hold a button down while spinning the wheel, the axis will "Que up " the spin moves and the axis will keep moving even if I'm not spinning the wheel. This damaged my Haimer as it slammed into the vise.



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    Default Re: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    Quote Originally Posted by t300 View Post
    thanks all. If I understand correctly the firmware for the mesa card needs to match the specific BOB in use? Not at my shop to check, is the nm145 BOB the same as other novakon models?

    Parts on their way, in the meantime I'll get a pc built and dump a copy of mach on it.
    Email Novakon, they will tell you which BOB you have. The BOB in my Pulsar has a little ardruino on it. I've only used PP with my Pulsar. I decided to go with PP after reading about the improvements of using PP over Mach3.

    Steve



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    Default Re: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    Hi Austin

    OK, Novakon under WXP. Is there an external pulse engine like an ESS, or does it use the LPT port?
    I am going to guess that it must be using the LPT as I can't imagine an external pulse engine doing this, and the DROs show the 'actual' speed. But I do not know.

    I have the advantages of knowing a bit about device drivers and how Mach3 generates the pulses. (I have been playing with computer hardware since ~1970.) Something has to be screwing up the Mach3 LPT driver from within Windows, preventing it from responding to timer interrupts. As I have never heard of this problem before in Mach3, I can't help feeling that there must be something, maybe hardware, inside your PC box doing this. But that is just me guessing.

    Very strange, and VERY annoying for you.
    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: nm145 - mach3, or 4, or linuxcnc or PP?

    Cnc4pc C11G board. Anyone know if there is a mesa firmware for this board yet or where to look?



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