If only Novakon had a better controller...

[wfr8577]

Hi All. I have not posted much, but have enjoyed reading here a lot. I am in the decision process regarding which CNC mill to buy. Initially, I was set on a Tormach PCNC-1100. Then I gravitated towards the Automate Talon MT-36. At the same time, I have been watching Blue Hands on Youtube working with his Novakon Torus Pro. I like it a lot.

I don't want to get very long with this post, but here is a brief summary of pros/cons for each (cost differences ignored).

Tormach:
Pros:
+Pathpilot is much better than Mach3
+Customer support is excellent

-Cons:
-Smallest work envelope of the three
-No rigid tapping / no servo option

AutomateCNC
Pros:
+Siemens 808D Controller is the best solution of the three
+Servos standard, including spindle
+Decent work envelope
+Most robust in terms of size/weight

Cons:
-Customer Service seems lacking. (Deal Killer)

Novakon
Pros:
+Servo option
+Rigid Tapping
+Largest work envelope

Cons:
-Mach3 (this is my big hangup)
-Customer Service used to be an issue, but seems better now.

I know there are lots of other things to think about, but I am mostly worried about what I listed above. I am currently using a self-converted G0704 to do my work and for me, Mach3 is marginal. I would much, much rather have a more robust controller. I have read BrianBoneDoc's thread about converting to Path Pilot, but really don't want to go through that myself.

I guess my vacillations have moved back towards the Tormach for now, but I really would like to buy a Torus Pro if only they had a better controller. Please feel free to offer opinions regarding what you think. I would really value the advice of those of you that own these machines themselves.

Warren

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[LeeWay]

I will say that I think you are wise wanting to get away from Mach 3. I put up with it for years and still do on a couple machines. I did not know how much better something else could be. Path Pilot under Linux makes the machine itself run better. A lot better. My Pulsar is like a seriously different machine. Under Mach 3, my Son would come in once a week and say the mill F'ed up again. Some was user error of course. Some due to vibration fouling the Smooth Stepper. Others minor glitches and restart cured those.
My Son doesn't do that anymore with PP.
Also I do not think the Torus Pro can do rigid tapping yet, but it may have an upgrade available that I haven't heard about.
Novakon is also US based now, so that is a benefit if you are from around here.

I think you are wise too to steer clear of the Automate offerings. No support is a deal killer.
I wish you good luck with whatever you choose.

[wfr8577]

Thank you Lee. I looked up Siemens 808D controllers hoping to maybe do a retro fit. They are not cheap.

https://machinetoolproducts.com/3-ax...motors-drives/

[SCzEngrgGroup]

If you like PathPilot, and you like the Torus Pro, then run PathPilot on the Torus Pro. Several people here been running PathPilot on their Novakons four a couple of years. It's relatively cheap and easy to setup.

Regards,
Ray L.

[109jb]

If all you want is the stability of PathPilot then LinuxCNC give it to you and is easier to set up. PathPilot has LinuxCNC at its core with a custom user interface, and the only real difference is the interface. There are many interfaces available for LinuxCNC and setup of LinuxCNC from their LiveCD download is a snap. You can even try it out from the liveCD before committing to install.

[LeeWay]

I think the key to Path Pilot is the Mesa Card interface to Linux. Never had a single glitch with the mesa card. I can also tell you that if I can install Path Pilot on a Novakon, then just about anyone can. Brian's trail blazing helped tremendously, but when all is said and done, it is a pretty simple swap. My biggest fear was working with Linux, which as it turns out is not much different than using Windows.

[wfr8577]

That is really great to hear. Thanks again.

[kvom]

Another option for the Torus is Mach4. It supports the smoothstepper interface. I would have thought Novakon would be at least doing some testing with it given that Mach3 is essentially a sunsetted product.

[ger21]

Another option for the Torus is Mach4.

Maybe if it was finished. Many people still consider Mach4 to be an unfinished product. And the Smoothstepper plugin still does not support all of Mach4 functionality, after 3 years of plugin development.

[mklotz70]

Thanks wfr8577! Always nice to hear about someone watching the vids.

I'm really enjoying my Pro! My biggest grief by far...pretty much my only grief at this point... is mach3!!!!!

I was pretty surprised at the AutomateCNC offerings....didn't know about them. Last I looked, they were still Smithy. I didn't have time to look much. Looks like you need to get theRaptor TP-1040M to get the same work envelope and they don't have a price on it yet since it's still "in the works". I think I'd take the Pro with servos and PP/linux over it, anyway. As appealing as the 5hp spec is, the 3ph requirement negates it.

The BT30 spindle might be nice, but that adds a lot to tooling costs. I'll bet you already have a bunch of R8 tooling for your current mill. Ray's PDB and tool changer are better than the options on either of the other two choices. Heck...Ray's upgrades are enough better that I would drop the tormach from consideration. When I decided on my Pro, I wanted the biggest envelope....period. At the end of the day, you just can't make the machine any bigger. Seriously....the second biggest reason I bought the Pro......Ray's PDB. If you have existing R8 tooling, being able to run the collet out completely is just plain awesome!

I just put up one of the recent vids of it cutting steel. Skip to 15:40 in the vid.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/novako...ml#post1982440

My 2 cents is only worth about a penny, but there it is.

[Steve303]

I'm really enjoying my Pro! My biggest grief by far...pretty much my only grief at this point... is mach3!!!!!

Mike it was your videos that helped me decide to go with a Novakon! You should really give PathPilot a try. Purchase a SDD and a MESA card. Install PP on the second drive so as not to overwrite Mach3 and give it a run and see what you think of it.

Steve

[mklotz70]

Cool! I'm happy to hear that! Thanks!!

[wfr8577]

Mike it was your videos that helped me decide to go with a Novakon! You should really give PathPilot a try. Purchase a SDD and a MESA card. Install PP on the second drive so as not to overwrite Mach3 and give it a run and see what you think of it.

Tormach's site now says that you have to have a machine S/N to even order the disc. Is there a way around that?

[mklotz70]

I had just PM'd Steve about that. I didn't see it on their site, but I thought that's what I had heard in another post somewhere. I can understand their position.....if their controller can be used to make their competition's machine more desirable than theirs.....it would be self defeating.

[Steve303]

I just checked Tormach's site and they do now want a serial number. Last spring I ordered the disk directly from Tormach without a hitch. My understanding is PP is open source. Does anyone know if that means someone can send a friend a copy of the PP disk without infringing on copyright?

Steve.

[LeeWay]

Pretty sure that you can just install Linux and then download the latest PP update and install it.

[Steve303]

Pretty sure that you can just install Linux and then download the latest PP update and install it.

Any idea on how to do that Lee? Installing apps can be pretty quick and simple if the app you want to use is in the distro's repository. If it is not, then it can be rather difficult for a complete linux newbie like me.

Steve

[LeeWay]

I am rather new to linux as well. I am not sure what the version you would need is. Maybe someone else with more knowledge and chime in here?
I do know that each update of Path Pilot is a stand alone version that overwrites everything from the earlier version.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Under GPL, the code is required to be freely available, including source code. So, I have a hard time believing there would be any problem with someone sending you a copy of the disk. What you want is not the source code, but the bootable ISO image.

Regards,
Ray L.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

LinuxCNC is licensed under GNU GPL (General Public License), which requires that the source code be made available to "end users". If there is any wiggle room at all in Tormach's case, it is likely in the definition of "end users". Is that their customers, or anyone who might want to use PathPilot?

Anyway, here is a good summary of GPL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Ge...cense#Copyleft

My personal interpretation of GPL would be that there should be no problem with someone copying the Tormach CD/DVD and passing that copy to someone else. They own copyright on parts of the code, but cannot keep that code secret without violating GPL.

Regards,
Ray L.