Another Mill - Haas, Another Tormach, or a Novakon?

[BAMCNC.COM]

I purchased Rhino turn (the new one) and their staff couldn't come up with a post for my lathe, so they refunded me - they weren't happy about it though.

Currently I'm having Rob above help me, and another guy with Gibbscam. I can only use their turning portion of the code, still better than nothing.

[kvom]

Depending on the lathe (correction) and control you choose, you may not need a CAM for turning. Haas, for example, has canned cycles for turning, so that all you need to to hand-write g-code to trace the half-profile. When I was learning MasterCam on a Haas machine, we used these cycles rather then the MasterCam turning. The resulting g-code was much, much shorter and easier to adjust at the lathe rather than going back to the CAM terminal to regenerate.

[rlockwood]

Depending on the mill and control you choose, you may not need a CAM for turning.

Very confusing statement..

He's already got a lathe, which is equipped with a Fagor control. It probably has canned roughing cycles, but appears to be a thoroughly aggravating control to operate regardless..

[BAMCNC.COM]

Every part I've ever made on the lathe has hand coding in it, but that takes time and is a waste of time when prototyping, because every part is usually different (in my case) It's a 1996 control, with a CRT screen that is hard to read, of course I DNC over my code that was written on my PC. I would only use CAM for profiling (or odd shaped internal boring), everything else would be a canned cycle I hand code. Maybe I'm asking to much from Lathe CAM software? I use Rhino CAM with my Tormach w/ ATC and don't ever touch the code by hand, is that not possible with a lathe?

[LeeWay]

I use an older version of Dolphin Turn and it works pretty well. Kind of dated GUI, but once you get the PP edited correctly for the machine and tool placements, it is flawless so far.

[Tkamsker]

I have a cnc lathe and do also prototyping i use bobcad v25 only for cam for mill and lathe it Works ok ..

[BAMCNC.COM]

Ended up finding a "deal" on eBay on another GT-27 Lathe. Should have a YouTube video of it withen the next 2 weeks. It's the same lathe I have now, but with a Fanuc control, which is why I didn't hesitate. Now back to Rhino Turn for a Post I think. (Only thing with Fanuc is that it's 3phase, where as Fagor is single phase)

[MRM RCModels]

Ended up finding a "deal" on eBay on another GT-27 Lathe. Should have a YouTube video of it withen the next 2 weeks. It's the same lathe I have now, but with a Fanuc control, which is why I didn't hesitate. Now back to Rhino Turn for a Post I think. (Only thing with Fanuc is that it's 3phase, where as Fagor is single phase)

Nice!

[BAMCNC.COM]

Some interesting points of view in this thread, so even though it turned out with me getting a lathe, there was still good info. Thanks everyone!

[rlockwood]

I see what you did here.. TRICK QUESTION!

[mountaindew]

Ended up finding a "deal" on eBay on another GT-27 Lathe. Should have a YouTube video of it withen the next 2 weeks. It's the same lathe I have now, but with a Fanuc control, which is why I didn't hesitate. Now back to Rhino Turn for a Post I think. (Only thing with Fanuc is that it's 3phase, where as Fagor is single phase)

New user question.
3 phase is only available in commercial areas around here.
Do these machines work with some sort of phase converter?
Do the operate at a reduced horse power?
I can see having a high end machine center but this would require a commercial workspace with 3 phase power correct?.
How do others get around this?
I live on a corner property with plenty of room for a custom shop! my problem is unless I can power it , Im stuck with smaller equipment.
md

[rlockwood]

New user question.
3 phase is only available in commercial areas around here.
Do these machines work with some sort of phase converter?
Do the operate at a reduced horse power?
I can see having a high end machine center but this would require a commercial workspace with 3 phase power correct?.
How do others get around this?
I live on a corner property with plenty of room for a custom shop! my problem is unless I can power it , Im stuck with smaller equipment.
md

Phase converter, precisely. Available in two basic styles, static and rotary. Both have pro's and con's..

No need to run at reduced horsepower, though the phase converter will consume additional power. Depending on size, they'll also command a decent portion of the budget.

There are plenty of products though that can run on single phase and would be difficult to classify as 'smaller equipment' .. granted, you won't find many single phase 50-taper mills, but the smaller machines from Haas, Hurco, Fadal, etc are typically capable of running on single phase, though generally with some reduction in performance.

[BAMCNC.COM]

I'll be getting a 10hp Rotary Phase Converter from John Saunders (new dealer) (yes, NYCCNC) which will be nice, because now I CAN run my old lathe on 3 phase too, where as before I've been running it on single phase 220, so it ran on reduced HP, not that I ever needed it since it's just a 5C collet lathe.

The difference is my old lathe servo system was 120v, and the spindle is the only thing that is 3 phase, so a VFD worked fine. However the new system has 3 phase servo system, and you can't "trick" them with a VFD, because a VFD will drop the 3rd leg after it's started. Make sense?

[rlockwood]

I'll be getting a 10hp Rotary Phase Converter from John Saunders (new dealer) (yes, NYCCNC) which will be nice, because now I CAN run my old lathe on 3 phase too, where as before I've been running it on single phase 220, so it ran on reduced HP, not that I ever needed it since it's just a 5C collet lathe.

The difference is my old lathe servo system was 120v, and the spindle is the only thing that is 3 phase, so a VFD worked fine. However the new system has 3 phase servo system, and you can't "trick" them with a VFD, because a VFD will drop the 3rd leg after it's started. Make sense?

So much more wrong with running the axes with a VFD than just that..

Won't find many (any) Fanuc's capable of single phase directly, and converting it would be both much more involved and expensive than an RPC.

What brand is John dealing?

[BAMCNC.COM]

Yep, zero Single Phase Fanuc's as far as I know. The guy who has it now made his own Digital Phase Converter for it and says it runs just fine.

Well he won the American Rotary contest, so sounds like maybe as part of the deal he gets to sell them.

10HP Rotary Phase Converter | Phase Converters | American Rotary

[SCzEngrgGroup]

However the new system has 3 phase servo system, and you can't "trick" them with a VFD, because a VFD will drop the 3rd leg after it's started. Make sense?

That is not true. A static phase converter only partially drives the third "leg" but a VFD will ALWAYS generate correct waveforms for all three.

However, what you refer to as a "3 phase servo system" is, surely, AC servos, which require actual AC servo drives, which are VERY different from a VFD, to drive them in any useful manner.

Regards,
Ray L.

[BAMCNC.COM]

Why is my lathe de-rated with single phase 220? The 3 phase hooks right into the VFD just the same as single phase, just 1 more wire.

Right, they are AC servos on the new machine, but your not understanding what I'm saying. I wasn't saying I was going to drive the servos themselves with a VFD (or 2 I guess you would have to do which you can't do so...) I'm saying you can't hook up a VFD to the "servo system" (controller and drives) so I am told, because of the 3rd leg issue. Or is it another issue with the VFD? What is the actual reason?

I haven't personally put a meter/o-scope on mine under load to see what it's doing. I suppose I could do that one of these days.

[LeeWay]

The Novakon servo drives are 3 phase, but you connect them to single phase power. So in that regard, they are similar to phase converters. Everything after that are different breeds.

[rlockwood]

Or is it another issue with the VFD? What is the actual reason?

I haven't personally put a meter/o-scope on mine under load to see what it's doing. I suppose I could do that one of these days.

I'm probably incorrect here, because it's pretty far out of my wheelhouse; I've always understood that's effectively what the 'digital' variety phase converters are. And the only 'reason' not to is cost.

Static gives consistent power, is cost effective, but come with a whole host of other issues that make them basically unsuitable for anything using a variable speed motor, or a motor that needs to start/stop more than a few times a day.. among other limitations.. but that one basically kills it for a CNC. Works great if you need to convert a coolant pump, or similar.

Rotary gives inconsistent power, but is cost effective initially.. far more waste energy, though..

Digital gives consistent power without the drawbacks of a static, and are superior in most every way........... but are expensive initially, however they have much higher efficiency and can usually dump braking back to the grid, rather than burning it up as heat in your shop.

[jid2]

Phase Perfect is a much cleaner solution to 3 phase power, but they are kinda pricey. I was lucky enough to find one used locally about a year ago. Just getting around to wiring it in this week.