Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

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    Default Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    While browsing the forum world I happened across this somewhat local form section so Ithoght I would give it a whirl. I have a small guitar shop in Ringwood NJ. I have been building acoustic and electric guitars by hand for more than many many years yet under the saw dust I have always been computer addict. so now that I am much older and filing necks and other parts with shaves and files are not as comfortable as it once was I thought I would give automation a try at least dip my toes in to see if I could get a handle on the software environments. I purchased an X-carve from inventables which seemed to me a reasonable starting point and being an old vet I was able to get Solidworks student addition reasonably priced. Since I had also purchased CNC neck design from cnclutherie.com a while back it seemed the right path to take to start. The instruction is laid out quite nicely and I am able to do the neck designs that I find suitable for my electric guitars with tilt back headstocks. Where I am running into a real snag is, you guessed it the CAM. Although the 2D body and pickup cutouts are relatively straight forward. Everything I have trialed when it comes to the neck wants to cut the neck from a solid block of stock that is as large as the highest Z point which of course waist valuable time milling air since the actual stock is cut to 1" with the angle already cut as well See pic. Being lost in the mire and somewhat frustrated I purchased the second series DVD from cnclutherie.com CNC neck machining boy oh boy that certainly shed light on what I really needed. He uses MASTERCAM Yeah right, brilliant. you can even insert a stock model to create to cut/toolpath your design from. So I guess since I can not make enough guitars by hand a year for food, rent and MasterCam license the question is are there any affordable (remember I am a 1 man guitar shop) CAM packages that can utilize the Solidworks coordinate system or in some file extension way unknown to me that will not waste time or wood getting to the actual milling of my tilt back neck stock preferably from a single tool path job. where I do not have to reset my zeros. Not sure I am stating that correctly I hope you understand what I am getting at.. Anyway that my story

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    Default Re: Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    fusion 360 is your answer ad you can get ride of solid works as well fusion 360 dose everything you will need with one program



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    Default Re: Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    If you're willing to spend some money, there's a version of VisualMill that plugs into Solidworks. It's a full-featured CAM program that supports imported stock models, among a host of other features.

    [FONT=Verdana]Andrew Werby[/FONT]
    [URL="http://www.computersculpture.com/"]Website[/URL]


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    Default Re: Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    Quote Originally Posted by awerby View Post
    If you're willing to spend some money, there's a version of VisualMill that plugs into Solidworks. It's a full-featured CAM program that supports imported stock models, among a host of other features.
    A friend of mine that builds guitars uses that combo. He recently went to a Fusion360 seminar for SW users, and plans on switching to Fusion 360.
    $300/year vs $7000

    Gerry

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    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    VisualMill doesn't cost nearly that much (especially if you buy it from me), and I believe the OP said that he/she was using a student version of Solidworks, so that wouldn't cost so much either. I'm not knocking Fusion 360, but it doesn't support more than 3 axes, while doing guitar necks is easier with 4, something VisualMill would make possible.

    [FONT=Verdana]Andrew Werby[/FONT]
    [URL="http://www.computersculpture.com/"]Website[/URL]


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    Default Re: Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    I was including the cost of Solidworks. If you spend $2000 on Visual Mill, you almost have to buy Solidworks when your educational version expires.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
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    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Member awerby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    Except that our OP is a veteran, not a degree-seeking student. It seems that it only costs $20/year for the educational version of Solidworks, and there's no apparent reason that it can't be renewed yearly - once a veteran, always a veteran: http://files.solidworks.com/pdf/EDU_MVP_2013.pdf There's no special veteran's discount for VisualMill, but the standard edition is $1250 at list, and I offer a discount to everyone.

    [FONT=Verdana]Andrew Werby[/FONT]
    [URL="http://www.computersculpture.com/"]Website[/URL]


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    Default Re: Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    Just as an FYI The student version of solidworks will not allow saving a cam file even in the free FREEMILL



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    Default

    Also fusion 360 dose 4 axis now and it's always growing I'm sure it will be 5 axis soon



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    Default Re: Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    Continuous 4 axis and 5 axis will be extra cost options I think, according to the roadmap.
    Roadmap Check-in May 2016 - Autodesk Community

    Unless you locked into Fusion Ultimate in December 2014.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
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    Mach3 2010 Screenset
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    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Gold Member daniellyall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    fusion can do 4 now, sort of do 5 it is a preview thing that need a post processor to go with it, not a issue just ask on the forum. it can do bull poop 4th axis Continuous with Mach3, Mach3 has a wrapping function post for Fusion360

    Macguitar you can use HSMxpress free with solidworks, fusion has the same cam as HSM just the expensive version of HSM works. Pricing - Autodesk CAM Solutions

    there is a few dudes that build guitars on the fusion forum they work with each other, a couple of the guys are fusion staff.

    with fusion you can do some fancy tricks to get the necks cut on the front and back so you can cut the angle and not use a jig to cut the end bit on the bottom so you can do the whole side in one go flip it over onto a jig to hold it squire then cut the front in one set up, and to cut the frets you just draw a tool path for it to cut so it can do it in one or two runs.

    if you don't do 3D stuff when it comes out of Continuous 4 axis and 5 axis dev, there will be a $300 us and a $1200 us version, you can get it for $300 us at the moment, or free if you make under 100k.

    <img src="https://ivxo1q-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mENMmTr_Cabc7pR0FUdB6gtbADq2JbuG4_rGy0eBQvLJx19pTi6TqMUIJN0xgOyDIc0gWoxYhS38HpbSTFGdfaK-o42IOU6jczrhDpfpCOTNGL1X6hvZCbgj0y35gqmq1YGTrWwShYGV-C7lXA2esy0Pi_WfnBSyroDLSGXwce4uSr1U7op7srdi78rispHCa_K4aFlTlJPVkkNWMfgh_Tg?width=60&height=60&cropmode=none" width="60" height="60" />

    Being Disabled is OK CNC is For fuN


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    Default Re: Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    In the attempt to finalize my drawing and CAM solution I downloaded Rhino5 and and I have a friend with Rhinocam 2015. I have a question regarding what may or may not be a real issue however it is a bit confusing to me. I have been doing my drawings in Rhino5 with tool paths being done with Rhinocam 2015. all drawings are in Imperial units. I just received/setup my Laguna IQ HHC. I noticed that on the HHC the fle extension was .mmg so I called the support, they assured me that the unit could read either extension as long as I converted to metric. HUH? The tech was not specifically versed in Rhino and stated that just adding g21 to the top of the gcode file would convert as necessary. I am not confident enough in the conversation to just crank it up. so I though I would ask here for some insight and or direction I am itching to cut some wood. any help would be greatly appreciated.

    The thing that I noticed when scanning the .nc file generated by Rhinocam was that there was no G20 or G21 statement at all it caused me to think that it in fact was neutral and possibly that it doesn't care is it is metric or imperial as it was a coordinate reference not a measurement reference. Just my inexperienced brain wondering

    NOTE: I do need 3 axis

    FYI I have no CNC experience but am fairly technical I am a hands on luthier adding technology to my guitar shop



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    Default Re: Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    The tech was not specifically versed in Rhino and stated that just adding g21 to the top of the gcode file would convert as necessary.
    If the g-code is in inches, then that is incorrect. You'd want a G20, which tells the control that the code is in inches.

    If the control software units are the same as the g-code units, then you don't need a G20/G21.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
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    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    You have to take it slow with me. So when I look at the gcode generated by Rhinocam and I do not see G20 in the file that's because the drawing and the code are both in inches? if yes then I do understand that . So my question is or should I say remains at this juncture. If I am drawing and tool pathing in inches and the Laguna IQ HHC needs to be in metric do I need to convert at the drawing level? or can I in theory just enter G21 at the top of the gcode file? Rhino5 removes all CAM data when I convert and the new tool paths require all metric tools. the IQ is pretty common and they sell with Rhino and or Vectric so there must be a way to use it or is everyone using HHC and Rhinocam drawing in metric.



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    Default Re: Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    I don't use RhinoCAM, so I may make a few assumptions here.

    So when I look at the gcode generated by Rhinocam and I do not see G20 in the file that's because the drawing and the code are both in inches?
    No.
    Typically, G20/G21 is something added by the post processor. An inch post processor would insert a G20, and a metric post processor would add a G21. If the code does not have a G20/G21, then the post processor is not set up to insert it.

    If I am drawing and tool pathing in inches and the Laguna IQ HHC needs to be in metric do I need to convert at the drawing level? or can I in theory just enter G21 at the top of the gcode file?
    That depends on the Laguna control. It sounds like it can run the inch code with the G20 (inches) in the code. (Not G21) Many controls can do this. If they see the G20, then they convert the movements to mm's.
    If not, then yes, You'd scale the drawing to mm's before creating your toolpaths.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    I know exactly what you're trying to do. The cheapest CAM solution I know of for solidworks owners is HMSXpress.

    HSMXpress Free SolidWorks CAM Tutorial Video!:

    Give it try. Not sure if it does surfaces but has some cool adaptive features. Anyway, if you don't want to cut all that air and your cam is forcing you to just cut the code, or...

    I don't really know what cam package you use if any, but most will let you set a number of different clearance levels and set them up absolutely or incrementally. That way you're not taking like ten passes of air before you reach wood.
    Hope that helps and hey, I'm not too far off. Check out my website.

    http://amggtrs1.wixsite.com/amg-guitars

    Alex



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    Question Re: Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    Hmm... I'm guessing you wanna work in inches. Seems odd to me that your laguna machine will only work in metric. Isn't there a place somewhere in the software controller for the machine, like for instance a configuration page, where you can just drop a number in to make the machines units either inch or mm? On my control program I got a little place called "units" where I would "set up" or "configure" the machine where I can drop a particular number in there to make the machine compatible with any unit I desire.
    I would think most controllers nowadays have a similar function.
    Hope that helps. BTW the Laguna machines I've seen look pretty nice.
    Have fun entering the wide, wide world of cnc! It's like driving a little remote control car, ain't it?
    Alex



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    Default Re: Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    Here's a quick, simple, easy way to test it. Step the control program along a ruler, or dial indicator, or whatever... maybe you have a cubit laying around. See what happens. Does the thing step in mm or inches? You should be able to step the machine however you want it to.



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    Default Re: Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    Why does everyone keep talking 4 axis and 5 axis, he is using an x carve which it is a low end hobby grade 3 axis machine. I used to have one...lol



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    Default Re: Small Shop Guitarbuilder New to CAD/CAM

    Thanks to all who have replied to this thread.

    I am leaving by past the X-Carve sold it. Doing much better with my Laguna IQ, Rhino5 with Rhinocam I have been able to accomplish everything I need to get done with minimal issues. Thanks Again



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