NCPlot v2.05 beta 4 now available

[MetLHead]

Notice to registered NCPlot users:

Registered NCPlot users may download and test beta releases of NCPlot v2 updates!

These beta versions are for testing only and are intended to help us work out problems before updates are released. To download, go to www.ncplot.com and click the NCPlot v2 link.

There have been several fixes and additions since the last beta, here's a sneak peek at what's new in this beta version:

View Fading - Allows you to display the entire toolpath while highlighting only the active tool.
New plot controls allow stopping at each tool change.
Support for some additional system variables.
Improvements to some plot controls for handling of subprograms.
And, of course, more....

Thanks,
Scott

[barbter]

Hi Scott,
Just downloaded the latest Beta.
Double click of middle button to zoom all! WooHoo!.

Comments/questions in no particular order.......

Where's the plot control to stop at each tool change??? Is this the R + T shortcut?
If it is, I feel an 'animate to next tool' button would be better?

I like the view fade set at 25. When I quit out and restart, it is always at 100.
Is there any way to save the 25 setting?

I have set up the milling toolbars as I want them (and saved the config, so when I restart they are where I want them to be).
The lathe view toolbar seems to have a mind of its own! I want to dock it, and it it makes adjacent toolbars jump up and down as I try to place it next to them!

I've sussed out the plot selected text only (highlight all and click icon).
Is there a way to animate the selected only (ie Highlight a complete toolpath, and backplot that)???
I know there are various ways to show the backplotted toolpath, but I like to see the animate, to watch those rapids!!!

Still can't change (and save) the font to size 11 (default 10 - you're younger than me and obviously have better eye sight).

I like the M for measure (I didn't realised it did that, until I read a reply in one of your posts). As they say, I should have RTFM!!!

Run time report now fixed (rapid error). I suppose it's only maths, but it is spookily accurate!

Plot animate speed. Ultimately, it would be good to have a slider toolbar like the view fade, to be able to speeeeeed it up, or sloooooowww it down.
Personaly, as a newbie to this cnc stuff, I'd find it very usefull.

As always, keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Terry

[barbter]

Scott,
I just sussed the text font size. I was playing with the ini file.
Saved the settings, opened it up, edited the font size, saved it, re-imported it and voila!
My eyes are now happy, and I don't have to get a bigger monitor....

Cheers,
Terry

[MetLHead]

Hi Scott,
Just downloaded the latest Beta.
Double click of middle button to zoom all! WooHoo!.

Comments/questions in no particular order.......

Where's the plot control to stop at each tool change??? Is this the R + T shortcut?
If it is, I feel an 'animate to next tool' button would be better?

I will be making some more changes to the viewport/plot controls but I may save these for the next update.

I like the view fade set at 25. When I quit out and restart, it is always at 100.
Is there any way to save the 25 setting?

I forgot to save this setting on exit, but I'll fix this.

I have set up the milling toolbars as I want them (and saved the config, so when I restart they are where I want them to be).
The lathe view toolbar seems to have a mind of its own! I want to dock it, and it it makes adjacent toolbars jump up and down as I try to place it next to them!

Sometimes the toolbars can be tricky to get them just where you want them, but I don't have any control over this.

I've sussed out the plot selected text only (highlight all and click icon).
Is there a way to animate the selected only (ie Highlight a complete toolpath, and backplot that)???
I know there are various ways to show the backplotted toolpath, but I like to see the animate, to watch those rapids!!!

This is one of those things that I will be working on for the next update.

Still can't change (and save) the font to size 11 (default 10 - you're younger than me and obviously have better eye sight).

I like the M for measure (I didn't realised it did that, until I read a reply in one of your posts). As they say, I should have RTFM!!!

Run time report now fixed (rapid error). I suppose it's only maths, but it is spookily accurate!

Plot animate speed. Ultimately, it would be good to have a slider toolbar like the view fade, to be able to speeeeeed it up, or sloooooowww it down.
Personaly, as a newbie to this cnc stuff, I'd find it very usefull.

As always, keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Terry

I don't know why the font size won't stick, I'll have to check on that.

Well, let me know if you find anything else (sounds like you're just getting started!).

Thanks,
Scott

[single phase]

Scott

I have been wanting to strike up a dialog with you and everybody on this forum about NCplot for some time now but I have been doubting my ability to get across what I want to say. I guess it's best to just spit it out and this thread is pertinent so. . .

I really love what NCplot does for me and I love the new fade feature. I use it exclusively for programming my old Mori Seiki (FANUC) lathe. I am sure many of you use it for programming mills too. In this vain I am going to state an assumption that you all might consider. The average person programming a CNC machine tool using NCPlot is using some canned cycles that that are specific to there controller. . . yes . . . no? If you are using them like me I bet you use the "Plot Controls" toolbar all the time. IMO, it is a lot of thinking and clicking to use that toolbar and that is the rub. I am forever using the up and down arrow keys on the keyboard to move through what ever part of the code I am currently working on. I first click refresh plot and then I move my cursor with my mouse to the line in want to change. Sound failure? But then if I want to see the wonderful animation (unique to NCPlot) step through the canned cycle I have to click a bunch of buttons in the "plot controls" to make it happen. It is that part of the work flow that I am wondering if we could make automatic.

Lets look at this another way, there are two basic ways to scroll through your program in NCPlot while watching the arrow move along the tool path in the graphics window:

1) One is to refresh the plot and step through the code line by line with the up and down cursor keys on the keyboard. This works good and is easy to use but it does not step through canned cycles. In fact it visually skips right over them.

2) The other is to use the plot control dialog to set up for what you want to look at with either the "plot to cursor" or "plot selected" or "plot from cursor" commands and then to use the F7 and F8 keys to step through your code and watch the animation. This works good to but takes many mouse clicks to initiate. It of course steps through the canned cycles and that is wonderful.

If you are saying to yourself right now I don't care, it may be due to the fact that you do not use canned cycles and so rarely use the plot control dialog to animate your code as you are designing it.

If on the other hand you are saying yea, " I spend a lot of time messing with the plot controls" then I am looking for a better way.

What do you all think? Would it be nice to just do away with the plot controls dialog box and just make it completely automatic? I think there are some easy ways to make this happen.

We could just put a single button in the "plot controls" tool bar that either turns the mode on or off. If it is clicked, the cursor is used for the "plot to cursor" mode and the up and down keyboard keys take over the F7, F8 and F5 functions. "Cursor up" is F8 (step backwards) and "cursor down" is F7 (step forward) and you hold down the "cursor down" key for the F7 (animate). If you have multiple lines selected when the button is clicked, it is the same as "plot selected blocks only".

This cleans up the interface and makes it automatic and removes all the clicking and thinking when using the "plot controls" toolbar. Some side notes are, there could be a max number of lines to plot parameter in the preferences that limits the computational overhead to this feature. Also the "fast forward plot to the end" and the "rewind the plot to the beginning" are mapped to the keyboard "page down" and "page up" keys when the mode is active.

What this does is, it integrates the two basic ways to scroll through your program into a single interface centered around the keyboard, not the mouse.


Cheers
Dave

[MetLHead]

Hi Dave,

I appreciate you taking the time to explain what you would like to see. If I understand correctly, you essentially would like to be able to duplicate all the plot controls from the keyboard. Is this correct? I can see how this would cut down on mouse movement & clicking. One thing you didn't mention and I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but you can hold down the CTRL key while using the arrow keys to navigate through your program. This works like the "Plot to Cursor" tool, plotting to whatever line your cursor is on. So you can just hold the CTRL key down and arrow down to the beginning of your canned cycle then use the function keys to step through it.

If you or anybody else has any thoughts on this, I'd love to hear them. Suggestions are always welcome.

Thanks,
Scott

[single phase]

It is not so much about being able to duplicate the plot controls from the keyboard but rather being able to do away with them to a large degree.

I see what you mean about the CTRL + arrow keys. That is exactly a step in the direction of what I was thinking!

If you hand NCPlot to an experienced g-code programmer that has never seen it before and ask them to use it, it will take them some time to understand what the difference is between the "two basic ways to graphically scroll through a g-code program in NCPlot" (see my previous post for description of the two scroll modes).

What I am thinking of is a user interface where the differences in navigating the two modes disappears. You are left with two modes, one mode that steps through the canned sequences (mode 2) and another that steps over them (mode 1).

Additionally:
The way NCPlot functions currently is, in mode 1, the graphics window shows the tool movements of every line of code and mode 2 shows only tool movements up to the current position of the cursor. This does not necessarily need to be the case. There could be a toggle that switches this independent of mode 1 or mode 2.

Scott, one thing that makes your program and your forum so much fun for all of us is that you entertain our ideas. I don't know if there is any merit to any of my ideas nor am I completely sure of what I am striving for here. But you do make the process fun. Thanks for such a great application, I don't know what I would do without it.

Cheers
Dave

[MetLHead]

Dave,

There's a good reason for me to "entertain your ideas" as you put it. Believe it or not, I don't get to use NCPlot as much as you probably do. I spend quite a bit of time either adding features or tracking down bugs. I *do* use it, and when I find something about it that annoys me I just change it. But all the good ideas come from the people using it, such as yourself. There have been tons of suggestions for new stuff and I try to get in as many as I can (the easy stuff usually goes in first).

But ultimately it's a trade off between more features and ease of use. Trying to cram in too much stuff makes it too complicated. So far I like your idea, now it's just a matter of making it simple. You suggested two modes for stepping through a plot. How about instead of switching between the two, I assign them to separate function keys (or SHIFT,ALT...whatever). One to step over, and one to step into.

Let me know what you think (or if I'm missing the point). It helps me a lot if you spell out *exactly* how you would like it to work.

Thanks,
Scott

[single phase]

I will think it through and write something up.

I think the toolbar is better than the ctrl or alt because it makes the use of the feature easier when the user wants to stay in one mode or the other for an extended period of time.

Basically I was thinking of a toolbar with two buttons in it. Both of the buttons are toggles that change from green (on) to black (off). One button switches the mode from step over (the off state) to step through (the on state) the other has the plot run to the end of the code or stop at the cursor.



Cheers
Dave

[barbter]

Hi all,
My 'entertainment', for what its worth.
I like the plot buttons, but would like to see it a bit different. This is how I use it.

Refresh button: (obvious)
Animate: (obvious)
Rewind: (Obvious)
Step forward and step back: I use these a lot, but then I am a newbee.
Fast forward to plot end: I have never used (but admit it could be useful).
Plot to cursor: I don't use this (or like it).
Start plot at cursor: I don't use this (or like it).
Plot cursor to end: I don't use this (or like it).
Plot selected program blocks only: I WOULD use this, if it animated the toolpath (ie I could watch the tool through rather than just see the result).
I think that this could be good to have both options. Perhaps highlight a whole tool, and either (button 1) plot with animation, or (button 2) plot without.

I think it would also be good to have a button which gives the option of stopping at each tool change.
With all these additional requests (and to save the necessity of a 36" wide screen), I wouldn't mind if you deleted the plot to cursor, start plot at cursor, and plot cursor to end!
Lastly, I think it would be good to have a plot animate speed (slider bar like the view fade). All (?) cam systems have this for the verify, and it justs allows a little more control.
However, if this is tricky to do, the step forward button will suffice!

Cheers,
Terry

[Andre' B]

As for stopping at tool changes, you could just implement the M1 optional stop and put it in the status bar by the block delete, and put the M0 toggle down there also.
We always put an M1 before and after the tool changes in any program.

Also when in Iso view sometimes it would be nice if the tool bar Pan button was a toggle on/off. Maybe push the button one time and it works like it does now, double click it and it sticks on until it is hit again.
Just noticed the pan function in the right click menu does not seem to be working, it is just rotating the view, ver2.04.

One feature I think would be nice is a plot to file. For when you have a macro-B program that you want to run on a machine that does not have macro B this would make a single long strait line G code program that would run on just about any control. For speed I would not mind if the display plot was ignored while this was happening.

[MetLHead]

OK guys,

You've given me a lot to think about... there's obviously room for improvement in the plot interface.

Andre,

In the Isometric view you can hold down the SHIFT key and pan with the right mouse button. Does this help, or would you still like to toggle the pan on & off? I'll check on the pan menu function.

Macro B programs can be converted to G-Code with the Macro Translator tool. Use this dialog to browse to your program and click the "Execute" button. The resulting G-Code is loaded into the editor.

Thanks,
Scott