Complete Newbie But Motivated Guitar Builder

[pdaddy]

Hello all,

I hope the community forgives my "newness". I am a guitarist first and and engineer second. I'm pretty technically inclined and quite comfortable with technology as I have been a network engineer and scripter for many years.

I have had this crazy idea in my head for a while now and it is really starting to pick up steam. I have long desired to build my own guitars. I have researched and experimented with electronics, wood and cool features that I think I want. As a first step I want to build a modified carved top Les Paul. Something nice and easy to start with right? LOL.

Anyhow, I realize that is a lofty goal but to help get me there I want to do a proof of concept if you will. I'm looking to outsource the first few attempts with a known custom guitar builder or just anyone that can cut wood I suppose. If I go with a custom guitar builder I can also use what is hopefully their expertise in quality tone wood selection. This guitar builder would need to use CNC machines that I can provide modified carved top les paul plans to to cut for me. Ed Roman is out as he apparently thinks CNC machines are the devil. Luddite! Once I am happy with the end product, if time and life permits, I will be buying a CNC machine to cut and build my own at home.

The problem is that I am so new to this that I'm not even sure I know the right questions to ask. I know there are many different types of machines out there. Store bought and home made. Multiple axes. Multiple software packages, etc.

Given what my goals are and that I might build one guitar every 3 to 4 months if anyone even wants them, where should I start? What software packages should I look at and learn? Where and what types of CNC machines should I be looking at that would be good for a very low production shop, large enough to cut any needed 6 string guitar parts and has software that might be compatible with what other custom shops use? To back up even farther what is the process for even creating or modifying plans to load into or program a CNC machine.

I need help to make the dream a reality.

[WayneHill]

PDaddy,

Welcome to the CNCZone. You already asked the right question. "Where do I start?".

What is your budget for this project and how soon would you like to be building a product?

Good luck,
Wayne

[Kammo1]

You will find all the answers you need right here on this forum and using the search facility will help,oh and by the way stay away from the Leprecauhn ED Roman!!!!!!!!!! again use google and search other forums as he is the Devil no one else. This man lies like a rug and is the lowest of the low, you have been warned.................

[pdaddy]

Thanks for the response.

That is a good question. My budget for the guitar itself is whatever is necessary. I'm not initially thinking of this as a money making venture, just an indulgence of a hobby and love of mine. I have heard all kinds of numbers for CNC machines but I have no idea what it is that I really need. I'm just familiar with the generic term.

That being said, I want to save a buck when I can but spending a few thousand dollars is not outside the realm of possibility. As far as a CNC machine I will need something that will do the job but it's not like it will be a daily use type thing.

As far as a budget for outsourcing cutting some prototypes from test wood I have no idea what people charge for that sort of thing.

[pdaddy]

Ed Romans is definitely an opinionated son of a gun. I try to listen to all information, take it with a grain of salt and then make an intelligent decision on whether to trust it or not.

I am definitely one to embrace technology and the end product is the end product whether it is cut by the cold blade of a CNC machine or carved by magical little elves. The biggest attraction of CNC obviously is being able to reliably reproduce success and leverage my familiarity with computers and technology. I'm not going to become a master luthier with a chisel and sanding block over night.

@kammo1 I am looking to get started within the next few weeks. The first step will be acquiring and modifying Les Paul plans to my liking and then sending them off to someone to cut a prototype from some cheap wood. If opensource software is a viable solution I would likely go that route unless off the shelf software isn't too ridiculously expensive.

After I get the prototypes cut I will mock it up to see how I like the look and feel of it and then take the next step of purchasing my tone woods for the real thing.

By the way for the Les Paul enthusiasts I want a "long tenon" build Les Paul. This would be based on the Gibson Les Paul custom, complete with binding and trim.

[pdaddy]

I'm game to try using the search feature but as I said I'm not quite sure what questions to ask. Should I search for CNC basics? CNC software? CNC machine based on intended use? I'm not trying to be lazy I'm a novice and I was hoping to get a very brief run down or framework of what I should be looking for.

Is all of the software 3d modeling software?
Do I need CAD software?
Does everyone build there own CNCs because it is simple or buy new/used?

What is even the process if I wanted to start from scratch? Can I send a body somewhere to be scanned and have the CNC plans made from that?

I just need a some clues to help me help myself.

[Kammo1]

Hi Pdaddy, first of what you will need is some sort of CAD programme to actually design and draw what you want to hopefully end up with and something like Rhino 3D or other will do this. Now there may be some free programmes out there but I have been looking at this stuff and its way over my head for now so I will be concentrating on 2D for fretboards body shapes etc and I will be getting the Vectric Cut 2D which for an absolute newbee like myself its fool proof and very easy to learn. Last year I hadn't got a clue about drawing in CAD etc so I downloaded a few freebees and learned alot from this. Just recently I dowloaded a programme called Draftsight which is a nice easy to learn 2D CAD programme and best of all its free so you have nothing to loose in this dept.
Ok now you'll need a CAM programme that will take your 3D model of say a Les Paul and start to generate toolpaths to cut your model out and again the Vectric software will be my choice when I can afford it and have some models to cut as it again is very user friendly and the support is fantastic Tony and his team have reall pushed the boat out with this software simply amazing.
Next obviously you'll need a CNC to actually cut out what you have designed and basically these 3 components are what you will need to get what you need.
I have designed and built my "mini-me" CNC which is solely for fretboards and nothing else and after being in this game for 30+ years I decided it was time to go this route as its more cost effective and basically spending 3-4 days cutting out inlays and pockets by hand was far too time consuming and I had had enough so it was "CNC" time. I like yourself knew nothing about guitar related CNC stuff but now with the trial versions of Vectric I can pull up a model of a fretboard design an inlay create pockets and profiles literally within the hour it really is that easy once you understand it and I will sing Vectrics praises as if it wasn't for there software and the ease of use I would not be able to get my CNC off the ground so I strongly recommend them 100%. There is free stuff out there but believe me its a minefield and I will gladly pay for the Vectric software than some of the stuff out there as it is confusing,and long winded so again whats free isn't always good.... Visit the Vectric site download the trial software and see how easy it is to use and go from there and "YOU" decide what works for you. My next step is building the bigger CNC for my necks and bodies and although the grunt work will be from the CNC the rest will still be hand finessed as I wouldn't want it any other way, hope this helps as remember all advice given is advice well recieved JMHO.

[pdaddy]

@kammo1

Thanks man. That is exactly what I was looking for. I knew I needed some software to model the guitar if you will and then somehow get it into a CNC machine to make the cuts.

I will probably be looking at Rhino 3d this weekend as it is my goal to create the whole guitar not just the fretboard. Hopefully I will see some other software packages mentioned that I might want to take a look at just to make sure I am doing my homework.

Am I in much danger of running into compatibility issues? I want to make sure that I don't end up going down a road that cuts off my options later. Being a network engineer and computer guy I know that once you choose a particular piece of software you are sometimes limited to a small set of compatible software and hardware that will work with it.

[Kammo1]

Bro glad that I could of passed on some advice as we all got to start somewhere. You will find that Rhino 3D will import into the Vectric software and I know that the post processing is Mach 3 compatible but again just double check and e-mail the software companies and ask lots of questions and they will only be willing to help. I was thinking there is also a CAM programme called CamBam and this is used as well in guitar making and maybe you can download a free trial to try before you buy just a thought. Also for a good basic software DeltaCad is also worth a try and its free for 45 days or so but again its real simple but only 2D but for cutting out the guitar profile you can draw it in this save it as a DXF file and then import it into a CAM programme to generate the code then load the file into Mach3 and away you go. For all the top carves like a PRS and Les Paul you will need the 3D stuff and most 3D software will do this with no problems.
The biggest issue I can see is really how accurate you build your machine and its this that will make or break a project so the better materials you can use the chances of better accuracies you will get. I have trawled this board and some MDF machines are producing some amazing results and to be honest working with wood you will not need engineering tolerances but if you can achieve this then its even better. I'll try and take some pics of my machines to give you some idea but I have used a mish mash of what I could get hold of and on a budget as well, hope this helps.

[CyborgCNC]

OK OK..SO I need to poke at the hornet's nest with a stick....

Solidworks and Mastercam!!

:-)

[Kammo1]

Now this man knows how to model etc and cut and I'd totally forgotten about him sorry Spiro maybe you can give us guys an insight although you do sell your DVD's which as soon as funds permit will be ordering as I would love to master designing and cutting in 3D. Mind you the 2 pieces of software mention can be very pricey what alternative would you suggest ? gotta say that the Vectric stuff is always what I come back to, any help would be greatly appreciated. Also would it be an idea to buy designs from you so we can just generate the toolpaths and cut with what software we have or is this not a good idea ? glad you can help.

[CyborgCNC]

Solidworks can be had as a student version....all you need is to know someone that has a student id, and you can get the software for about 200 bucks....

Yes, mastercam can be expensive, and if i was not using it, i would be using visual mill from mecsoft...very nice piece of software and complete integration with solidworks.

Rhino seems to be popular with luthiers, but the interface of the program drives me crazy,because it does not have a design tree, and having an engineering background, I can't stand it... :-)

Offcourse, nothing beats mach3 for router control....mecsoft has a good post processor for mach3 as well...so they all work in harmony together....

Also, my reccomendation would be to learn how to model first....there are no easy shortcuts to this....learning the modeling process if vital, and the sky's the limit after that....creating toolpaths will come easy after that....

My two cents....


Http://www.cncguitar.com. Great site!!! LOL!