Some Brand-newbie advise

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    Default Some Brand-newbie advise

    I was hoping to get some advice from the forum - I have always wanted a guitar similar to the Languedoc hollow bodies. I have absolutely zero CAD/CAM experience, but I have built many things out of wood before just never a guitar. In Pittsburgh we have a builder's workshop where you can pay $150 monthly for membership that gets you access to CNC machining, a spray booth, a work area, tons of tools, etc. Additionally I have most of the hand tools I would need from working on my other guitars. If I were going to build a guitar from scratch I would want to do it with CNC. My question I guess is this - does it make sense for me to try to model an arched top hollow body guitar and mill one out? I am a software engineer by trade, writing the embedded code to run the actual machine would be right in my wheelhouse, but that's a different universe completely than modelling. If this is going to end up being a project that takes 18 months, costs $5000, and ends in an inferior instrument that doesn't play right, I'd rather buy an Artcore. I'm really looking more for a "you should try it, it's great fun" or "this is too ambitious kid, stick to 1's and 0's" type of advice.

    Also, if anyone has a suggestion for CAD software to start modelling that is full featured enough to model an archtop, but inexpensive enough to not totally miff SWMBO (she who must be obeyed, don't know if you guys use that one over here), I would like to hear what you suggest. Many thanks!

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    Default Re: Some Brand-newbie advise

    hi croncejc, kind o fin the same boat as you. FNG with no experience but many ambitions.

    I tried ironcad at first but it seemed less intuitive than fusion360 with I played around with yesterday for a few hours. I have ZERO training in CAD, only practical computer experience. I was pleasantly surprised how intuitive it was. The best part was that it's free for enthusiasts! Might want to download fusion360 and see how you like it. The couple tutorials I watched were helpful too.

    I've hardly got the CAD program down and now I'm looking for a home/desktop CNC lol. I'm not good at doing things incrementally ahaha


    Others may chime in with more helpful practical info.

    best of luck!



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    Default Re: Some Brand-newbie advise

    I'd Like to "chime" a small bit.
    I make guitars now, never in the past nor can play one either.

    First, before you guys spent money on software or machines.
    Think of this, What geometry / math, drafting, print reading skills do you possess?
    How about analytic geometry? Trig, Algebra, Pattern recognition? concentration level? cartesian coordinates? positive and negative numbers, visualization ability?
    The Biggy Here,,,,,,
    can you break down the whole guitar to discrete individual geometric components?
    (this is not for ADD or dyslexic learners),

    Learning CAD from scratch can be painful and develop erroneous habits.
    There is a certain skill set to get this stuff, and a teaching sequence.
    I have taught many to do Cad & CNC. (they make 6 figures now)

    The good part, it really is easy when presented correctly.
    And you have a project to complete.

    The CAD is merely an electronic template.
    The CNC is just a way to run the router around the template.
    If the template is 3-dimensional even better.

    You are just doing things vicariously in the mind before committing to actual.

    Remember ALL cad systems generate geometry,
    results are more important than the software name or cost.

    Best wishes in you quest to learn.

    Been doing this too long


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    Default Re: Some Brand-newbie advise

    For cheap you can get Fusion 360... Free even. It will do anything related to luthiery. BUT, prepare to study a good 6 months to a year to bring it all together in a sensible manner. Then throw in another year (ehem lifetime) of skills to design a guitar. Why does this go there? Why is that brace better than this brace? Why this string gauge and not that string gauge? Kerfing? How the heck to I cut kerfing on my CNC?

    IF you have no interests in modelling your own but just throwing a toolpath on a purchased 3D model there are some out there selling bodies in the 3D world. I do not know anything about them.

    I don't recommend taking on an archtop as your first project. I would suggest making a few pre-assembled kit guitars from Stew Mac or Grizzly (stewmac.com) first to get your hands ready. If you start from scratch on the CNC don't forget you'll need lots of fixtures and jigs, which you won't need with a kit build. They even sell ukulele kits which are much much easier.

    For an arch top there is an excellent book by Robert Benedetto, "Making an Archtop Guitar". It goes through all the steps to make them by hand and will give you an idea of how big of an undertaking this is. Get some books and start studying.

    On another note there is a continuing education program the "Parks and Rec" puts on where I live. We have a guitar manufacturer that hosts guitar building classes so maybe you'll get lucky where you are. In those "Maker Spaces" I doubt you're going to find any luthiers who will be able to help. I also doubt they will have luthiery tools so budget for those (stewmac.com).

    It's a lot of work and your first attempts will be frustrating and costly. BUT, once you get one done you'll probably want to make another and another.....



  5. #5

    Default Re: Some Brand-newbie advise

    I'm using 2D cnc to build guitars and am learning 3D. I think the answer to your question is yes...you'd want to use CNC to help you build your guitar(s) from scratch. The learning curve is less steep the more experience you have. You can certainly build without the CNC and produce a fantastic guitar. When I use the CNC for a build, I know it's going to be exactly the dimensions I want it to be, and all components are matched and are aligned perfectly. This probably isn't as important if you're building one-off guitars, but if you see yourself building more than one, then CNC is a good investment in my opinion. Oh...and I do more on my CNC than cut out guitars. I make signs, wooden jewelry boxes, and wooden jewelry...I'm only scratching the surface.



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    Default Re: Some Brand-newbie advise

    If this is going to end up being a project that takes 18 months, costs $5000, and ends in an inferior instrument that doesn't play right, I'd rather buy an Artcore. I'm really looking more for a "you should try it, it's great fun"
    The answer is both. Yes, it may take 18 months, and result in a bad guitar, but you'll find it very enjoyable.
    The issue here, is that you're starting with an archtop, which is probably one of the more difficult things to design in CAD.
    Then add the fact that getting a CAD model on the first try that results in a great archtop will be a very long shot.
    Also keep in mind that to cnc an archtop, you need to make custom 3D fixtures to hold the front and back to the table while you machine the second side, as they are 2 sided parts.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Some Brand-newbie advise

    How is the learning going? needing direction?

    Been doing this too long


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    Default Re: Some Brand-newbie advise

    I'll chime in here and agree that Fusion360 is the way go. I too am a software engineer who had little CAD experience (had used Sketchup and TurboCAD in the past).

    The nice thing about F360 is that it has full CAM simulation, which will be important in saving you time when you actually go to the rent-a-shop to do the cuts.

    Because you can simulate the actual cutting/CAM opersation and visually see the results, you can sit in your bedroom at night perfecting it untill you're ready to do the physical cutting.

    NOTE: learn to pay attention the simulation display. Turn off your model and see what the actually stock looks like. Change the color scheme and look at it all ways. Finally, turn off your
    model and look at the tool paths to make sure they aren't plunging into your model (this can happen if you don't configure correctly ).

    And lastly , as software engineer you will find F360 a little maddening at times. They don't seem to know what they're doing on building UIs. They inconsistent between the modeling and CAM sides (I suspect the usual acquisition of tools situation). They don't seem to know how to do simple UI programming like capturing mouse events and de-focusing correctly. Maybe it's because i'm on a Mac, but prepared to "save early save often" and deal with these quirks.

    That aside, It's pretty darn powerful esp for the price. But I probably spent 1000+ hours on the learning curve (includes building my CNC). So, it's a time investment. Modeling an acoustic guitar neck is a challenge if you're a new, and I probably shouldn't have started with that use case.



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Some Brand-newbie advise

Some Brand-newbie advise