TB Woods Inverter to Perske Programing

[Jim Dawson]

That's my guess, and from your wiring description it doesn't sound like there is any wiring in place to do that. There should be an output from the inverter that is connected to an input on the controller. The quickest way would be to figure out what input is needed and put a jumper on it on the controller end. Not sure if that would be a 5V or 24V input. Do have the electrical documentation for the controller?

[retske]

There are 4 wires, VIN and COM run to the control board for the CNC. FWD runs to the spindle and +24 runs to nothing. I know it previously ran without these errors, so I'm unsure why I'm having them now. Maybe there is a bypass for the spindle response that got reset, but I'm not sure.

[Jim Dawson]

There maybe a parameter setting in the controller that allows an override of that signal. But I have no idea what it would be, and you need special software to access it. There are about 200 parameters in the controller, and getting a list of them is virtually impossible. I have only be shown a few on an as needed basis. The best bet would be to figure out what input is involved and jumper it out, or program the inverter auxiliary relay to make the controller happy.

[mactec54]

I see the problem. I would have to be sitting in front of that inverter with the manual in my hand to program it. That is a pretty sophisticated inverter and a manual written for a controls engineer. It's about like trying to read some of the Chinese - English translations.

Section 3 is where you want to start, then read through section 4

Take a look at parameters 31 and 32. I think 31 should be around 120 and 32 should be 400. 32 should match the spindle motor data plate HZ

Parameters 21 and 24 sets the input mode. In other words where the run and frequency commands are coming from, Keypad or terminals.

Parameters 42 and 43 are the accel and decel, in seconds, factory default seems to be 3 seconds. Probably should be more like 5- 8 seconds for a spindle motor.

If it will run with parameter 51 set to 6, vector control mode, that would be my preference. Follow the auto tune instructions in section 3.9

Parameter 59, set to motor rated voltage.

I'm not able to find the Motor Rated Amps parameter, normally it's obvious.

I hope this helps.

It is not a good idea to give out setting it they are not correct, this is an expensive spindle to repair, these spindles do not run at 400 Hz, so it is a good thing that it did not start up and run, so he should not have any parameters set at 400, they should be to start at 300, some of these have a range of 300 to 360 max, but most run at 300

A guess can smoke a spindle like this

[Jim Dawson]

It is not a good idea to give out setting it they are not correct, this is an expensive spindle to repair, these spindles do not run at 400 Hz, so it is a good thing that it did not start up and run, so he should not have any parameters set at 400, they should be to start at 300, some of these have a range of 300 to 360 max, but most run at 300

A guess can smoke a spindle like this

Thank you for catching that typo, you are correct, that should be an 18,000 RPM spindle. 300 is correct. It's the same spindle I have for my machine.

[retske]

No worries, my motor is rated to 360 Hz ~21K RPM.

I think Bypassing the signal is the winner.

The spindle works now, but I'm still getting the communications errors.

[Jim Dawson]

You're making progress. Almost there.

If you have the electrical schematics for that system, pretty sure we can track down the missing input.

[mactec54]

No worries, my motor is rated to 360 Hz ~21K RPM.

I think Bypassing the signal is the winner.

The spindle works now, but I'm still getting the communications errors.

On the control side of the VFD how many wires or terminals are connected a photo would help to see what they had connected, then we will know how they where controlling it

[retske]

First, the manual for the machine is here: http://www.multicamsoutheast.com/wor...ser_Manual.pdf
The only schematics I could find show how to wire in power, nothing else.

After talking to a few techs, I'm starting to think this was wired as an I/O and something on the program side was set to send a signal and did not expect a response. Therefore, I would set the spindle speed on the inverter, then load the CNC program (essentially just a pattern) through the control board and attached PC. If, that is the case, I just need to figure out how to fake the response signal or set the MultiCam control board to not want a response. I can load a pattern, but it won't run without the spindle response, probably a safety feature.

One tech told me if this is a RS485 connection, I would need to turn off the Data Set Ready and Clear To Send settings; I have no clue how to tell whether it is a RS485 connection or how to change those settings.

[Jim Dawson]

On the inverter, are there any wires connected to SIO+ and SIO-? These are the rs485 connection.

In the MultiCam controller there are a bunch of setup parameters that can be accessed using Motion Mechanic software. But the problem is that MultiCam keeps this information pretty close to the vest. I have not been able to get the full list. I do have the Motion Mechanic software if you need it.


EDIT: I may have the schematic available. I have a customer with two of these routers. They are not far from me and I could run over there and take pictures of their manual. A picture of your MultiCam board would be helpful.

[retske]

The control board and the inverter.

Nothing is connected to the SIO on the inverter and looks like never was.
I have the Motion Mechanic software, but I would have to find the needed codes.
This I have never moved the wires on the inverter terminals, so I assume this was set up as analog. I just got a schematic for wiring a Magnetek 315 into the M24 controller, but I haven't found their terminal descriptions helpful. Looks like that schematic is for wiring up in SIO.

I'm going to look at motion mechanic now to see what I can see. It would make sense, this error did start showing itself after I hooked up the new computer and uploaded the parameters to the control board (then again there was a lot going on at the install, so it could easily have been something else.)

I don't want to put you out, but if you're able to get this schematics, that would be awesome. If they have a manual different from this:http://www.multicamsoutheast.com/wor...ser_Manual.pdf that would be perfect. Or if they have actual schematics for a TB Woods inverter or an inverter with a manual with good descriptions.
Thank you Jim. I owe you big time for all you help.

[Jim Dawson]

The good news is that the your board and the board in my customer machine are the same part number. The inverter is different but that should not be a problem.

I see some text next to the input LEDs, I can't read all of it, but one seems to say something about Inverter, the one above it looks like xxx 1 RDY? Spindle 1 maybe?

I'm pretty sure that those are 24V inputs, but don't connect anything until I can look at the schematics to confirm. I would hate to fry a board due to wrong voltage. I'll run over to may customer and get the schematics, then we can compare to your wiring.

[retske]

Hope that helps. If you know where I can find any info on motion mechanic as well, because that is the most likely candidate right now.

If not, maybe the wiring can fix it.

[Jim Dawson]

I'm going to say the controller is looking inputs for Spin 1 Rdy and maybe Inverter Flt.

I'm going to head over to my customer now. It will get me out of my chair I'll be back in an hour or so.

[Jim Dawson]

Here is the problem.....I think. Wires 760 and 770 (774 on my schematic) need to have 24+ volts to the input. Wire 348 should be 24+



I'll send a PM with a link to all of the schematic files later

[retske]

Ok, so the +24 out of the inverter should go to one of my 348 wires? Is that correct?

[Jim Dawson]

No, 348 is the 24V+ from the panel power supply. To get the system running you have to supply 24+ to 760 and 770. I would just remove 770 and 760 from the terminals and install temporary jumpers from 348 to the terminals that 770 and 760 are connected to.

EDIT: This could cause the controller to think that the spindle is at 0 speed when it should be running, so it may not actually cut a part, but you should be able to get the spindle running this way. We can wire it up correctly later.

[retske]

So I should wire it like the picture? But I should completely remove 760 and 770? Is that correct?

[retske]

If I'm reading this right, 24v applied to 510/511 wire would signal Spindle Enable Off; would this bypass the controller to look for it?

I tested the voltage off the board and 760 has 24, but 770 does not. In fact everything in that bundle have 24 except 770.
But wouldn't supplying 770 with 24V give it the inverter fault signal?

[Jim Dawson]

Yes. For a temporary test. It should get the machine running. Later we'll wire 760 into the AUX relay on the inverter.

While you're at it, locating the other end of 760 and 770 would be a good idea. Need to figure out what they are connected to, if anything.