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    Default MultiCam 44plus

    judging by the previous thread by user: bilby, the MultiCam 44plus is a popular old beast in this forum.

    We just got one for training purposes and - while the bones are solid - the electronics are a stroll down memory lane!!
    Drivers, controls, transformers etc are all circa 1996. I didn't really notice the quantum leaps the industry was making but now that I can A/B compare today's relatively small, not to mention QUICK, components. It's pretty fantastic to see.

    So here's the plan... the students are going to slowly work through the ancient stuff to see where we came from and then look at where we are today. After a week of tinkering we're going to remove virtually all the 1996 era components and set this unit up with new motors, wiring harness, drivers, power supply(ies), hall effect and belts/pulleys. We also want to use a non-proprietary software since the one we have is so old it's operating system is an abacus.

    So HERE'S the questions we have for the council...

    What route would you guys take re:
    - Steppers or servos?
    - what size?
    - leave the vac table or strip down to aluminum t slot?
    - make & manufacturer of drivers, motors, controller/BOB?
    - software?



    So thanks for your thoughts and suggestions...

    Similar Threads:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails MultiCam 44plus-20170128_142043-jpg   MultiCam 44plus-20170201_160855-jpg   MultiCam 44plus-20170201_160728-jpg  


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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: MultiCam 44plus

    - Steppers or servos? How about the best of both worlds, stepping servos
    - what size? Match the size of the existing motors.
    - leave the vac table or strip down to aluminum t slot? Either way works, by drilling and tapping some holes in the table, you can go either way
    - make & manufacturer of drivers, motors, controller/BOB? Consider the Clearpath SD series servos, built in drive, step & direction input.
    - software? Mach3, Linux CNC are two good options

    As far as the BOB and other electronics, choose the software first to confirm compatibility.

    Then the other consideration is the budget. If the budget is unlimited then the possibilites are unlimited, the inverse is also true.



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    Default Re: MultiCam 44plus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    If the budget is unlimited then the possibilites are unlimited, the inverse is also true.
    True dat !! Thanks for the input.


    We're thinking of starting the build around a Galil Motion Control product. Their ability to process quickly and pull massive amounts of commands make them pretty sweet for industrial quality - but Windows based - control front ends. Our first class uses steppers and pretty simple B.O.B.s to create X,Y,Z functions but adding an A to the mix as well as spindle control calls for bigger guns!

    We hadn't really considered the ClearPath option because of budgetary constraints but they are incredible motors and we may look into them.

    We'll post the 'uncrating' video (#1) as well as an overview of the 1996 era controls next week...



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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: MultiCam 44plus

    Galil Motion Control products is an excellent choice, very flexible. I will be happy to donate the software front end you need to run them, and for educational purposes include the source code if you like. I just happens that that is exactly what I use in my CNC machines and have been using Galil products in my motion control projects for over 20 years.

    With the Galil controller, I would start out with the existing steppers and drives just to get the wheels turning, then add on/upgrade as needed.

    Here is a screenshot of my CNC software



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails MultiCam 44plus-screenshot2-jpg  


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    Default Re: MultiCam 44plus

    Jim Dawson,
    Looks like you did a nice job on your software front end. Just curious what kind of Axis is K and R, normally I see A and C for a five axis machine?

    Nice job
    Russ



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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: MultiCam 44plus

    Thank you for the kind words.

    K is the Knee

    R is the Rotary, but I agree it is normally labeled A, but as the programmer I can be different



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    Default Re: MultiCam 44plus

    That's very cool of you Jim, thanks a ton. I'll make sure the guys give you a shout out during video of the build !



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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: MultiCam 44plus

    When you have a computer to run on and have chosen a Galil controller, let me know and I'll give you the link for software and driver download. And of course provide enough tech support to get you going.



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    Default Re: MultiCam 44plus

    Thanks again Jim.

    Our original thoughts were to use a Galil DMC-4143 or 53 to control some Fanuc servos we have on the shelf. Beautiful motors but getting tech support from Fanuc is like pulling teeth. At one point they suggested we hire a service tech to come make all our connections for us.

    Kinda defeats the whole 'hands-on training' thing doesn't it??



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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: MultiCam 44plus

    Those are good choices for the Galil controller. If a DMC-40x0 is in the budget, it would be a good option. Has a few more features than the DMC-41x3 controllers. I bought a DMC-4080 on Ebay for $900 last year. It's now running a Shizouka AN-S mill with 24 tool changer. There are a number of Galil controllers on Ebay, but you have to watch what model you buy.

    Fanuc is funny that way. Are those Fanuc's AC or DC servos? If DC you can hang just about any DC servo drive on them, but if AC and you don't have the drives it gets a bit more fun.



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    Default Re: MultiCam 44plus

    I had a MC 44Plus for a lot of years. Had to re-wire the gantry as the wiring had gone bad. The SP PowerMax II's were good little motors for Nema 23's but are no longer being made. The stepper drivers in these were generally 1-5.5 amp, dip switch adjustable motor amperage and pulsing was also dip sw adjustable. After re-wiring mine, I fabricated new nema size 34 alm motor mounts for the transmissions, at this time I also rebuilt the transmissions, using the best bearings I could find. I machined the motor pulley holes to .375" dia. for the larger shaft motors. I used 2 stack nema 34 motor's, the plastic gantry covers barely fit over bigger motors. The drivers were re-used, just reset the dips for the full 5.5 amps, step pulsing remained the same.
    Those changes made a good machine even better, faster, and much more power. Mine had 2 Z's with 2 5.5hp Perske spindles, so the gantry was heavier than most. Good machines, if you keep them maintained and the linear bearings greased.

    I've attached a pdf of the size 34 motor plates.

    Neal

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails MultiCam 44plus-mc44-plus-motor-resize-9-14-pdf  


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    Default Re: MultiCam 44plus

    Well, she's up and running with everything except 3ph to the spindle. All we have in the temporary location is 240 / 1ph, but that's all we need to run everything except spindle.

    A little bit of electronic sleuthing and she's humming with pendant control of jog, home, z axis etc. We don't have anything plugged into front end since we don't currently have CNC control software for a 21 year old MultiCam control board (M23.2), but controls, drivers for X, Y, Z all work and we're feeling hopeful.

    Once we begin rebuild with Galil, drivers and (most likely) new motors we'll be using the software below but for now we want to find something to put this through it's paces...

    Ideas??



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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: MultiCam 44plus

    Sounds good so far.

    I'll PM a link to software I think will work with that controller.



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    Default Re: MultiCam 44plus

    Well kids, it's been interesting.

    The reasoning behind rebuilding this unit wa to show 1st and 2nd year students the theory and history of CNC.
    that much has been a success.

    We've brought the unit back to life, repaired the drivers, power supply(ies), deciphered the 1996 era drawings and contacted MultiCam.

    But now it's time to quit playing and rip this badboy apart. EVERYTHING goes except frame, spindle and motors.

    Jim Dawson has provided some awesome software and several others have directed us to inexpensive routes to a 2017 era machine with 1996 bones.

    Looking for suggestions for matched drivers/power supplies as well as control boards & motors that will be responsive, efficient and $$$$ accessible.



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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: MultiCam 44plus

    Sounds like you are coming along nicely. I hope the students are learning something.

    Can you confirm that the existing motors are a standard NEMA 34 frame with 1/2 inch shaft. There are a few Asian ''NEMA 34'' motors that have 12 or 14 mm shafts, and this would be a problem when trying to connect with the X axis gear boxes. There are a few routes to go, AC servos, DC servos, ClearPath servos, closed loop steppers, or open loop steppers.

    Here are a few links to what I believe are compatible servos and closed loop steppers.

    http://www.automationtechnologiesinc...x-gecko-driver


    http://www.automationtechnologiesinc...t-110vac220vac


    https://www.teknic.com/


    https://www.electromate.com/ac-servo...e-systems.html

    Optionally there are a bunch of NEMA 34 open loop stepper kits available on ebay. But watch the shaft size. Something in the 1200 oz/in range should be OK.

    The Galil will work best with a closed loop system that can feed back the encoder signals to the board, rather than to the drive. All closed loop stepper systems will accept a step & direction signal from the Galil, and the encoder could be connected to both the drive and parallel onto the Galil main encoder inputs, for feed back to the UI. Or my software can just read the AUX encoder from the Galil to get position data, but this more of an indication of position rather than a true position value. Either way will probably give adequate performance. My prefered method is a servo system, with a +/- 10V analog or PWM command signal to the drive and the encoders tied directly to the Galil. This lets the Galil have full control over the servo.

    Last edited by Jim Dawson; 03-11-2017 at 02:41 PM. Reason: added content


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    Member krammer226's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    Galil Motion Control products is an excellent choice, very flexible. I will be happy to donate the software front end you need to run them, and for educational purposes include the source code if you like. I just happens that that is exactly what I use in my CNC machines and have been using Galil products in my motion control projects for over 20 years.

    With the Galil controller, I would start out with the existing steppers and drives just to get the wheels turning, then add on/upgrade as needed.

    Here is a screenshot of my CNC software



    Hi Jim . I’m am in the process of building a custom Cnc machine based on Galil DMC4080 and I was looking for a front end software for my controller .
    My only option was mach4 . Can you please tell me what software do you use ?
    Thank you ????.



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