Help, Mr. Wizard !!!

[emexcee380]

Greetings CNC zone people,

I have a mid-80's vintage Mori MV-55 w/Yasnac MX-2 control.

Currently the machine is in an alarm condition displaying: "MACHINE ALARM:
ATC NOT HOME" (dgn. 1505.5=1) The x & y axes will move via MPG, but the z-axis will not. (Nor will the spindle come on.)

I think this means that the ATC double arm is not "home", but I'm not sure.

The Maintenance Manual describes an ATC recovery procedure ("M31" followed by various m-codes to single-step the ATC mechanism) but this will not work. In this mode I would expect the logic to be over-ridden by disabling interlock conditions.

Can someone please point me in the right direction regarding this problem.

Thanks,

emexcee380

[phix]

Does it look like the arm is at it's home position? If not, you should be able to pull the cap off the arm motor and rotate it a little by hand. There's a dead spot on the older Mori's where the arm doesn't move even though the motor's rotating.

If it does look home, the prox switch verifying that the arm is home is most likely bad.

What events led to the current condition? Alarm at power up? Or had it been running then stopped?

[emexcee380]

Phix,

Thanks for your response.

The biggest mystery is why the control (Yasnac MX-2) will not accept the
"M31" command to over-ride the interlocks and allow me to force the ATC to the "home" condition. (There are four input signals that must be on to confirm "home" of the ATC.)

The manual specifies enabling parameter 7020.0 to "Over-ride Start Interlock", then commanding M31 to enable a maintenance mode that should allow me to execute various m-codes to actuate the various ATC functions.

I've confirmed the MDI mode, EDIT LOCK off, and CYCLE START p.b. input but the M31 will not execute.

A fellow at Mori was as helpful as I could expect, but we were never able to figure out why the M31 wouldn't execute. I tend to think we have a Yasnac problem and hope to take it up with one of their tech guys next week.

If you have any insight regarding this, I'd certainly be "all ears".

Best regards,

emexcee380

[underthetire]

Unfortunatly, that vintage mori is probably one of the hardest to recover, especially with the Yasnac. This is almost never a control problem, it's usually a sequence or switch problem. I have had to recover quite a few over the years, but i've been out of the field for 3 years now. If you don't use it you lose it. Sorry I can't help any more.

[phix]

emexcee380

Without having a copy of the ladder diagram and direct access to the machine, it is pretty hard to diagnose what's holding you up. Most likely, underthetire is correct, in that your machine's problem with accepting the M31 is a machine side logic problem.

The practical solution to this problem is to determine the current condition the ATC is in, look in the manual to determine where it needs to be, and manually move the individual components.

Home position is usually;
Magazine Pot Up
ATC Arm Up
ATC Arm 0 degrees
Magazine Lock

Or something close to those criteria.

ATC arm movement is controlled by a 3 phase motor that drives a gearbox. You can move the arm home by cranking the motor by hand. I used to do this with vise grips on the motor shaft. You could use a crescent wrench, but you must be very careful not to let go during the clamping or unclamping of the spindle, or the wrench will get launched.

The pot up/down is controlled by a pneumatic solenoid valve. Removing the hirschman connectors on the valve will allow you to fire the pot up and down by pressing the button on the valve.

The real questions are....where is the arm? Is it up and straight? Does the magazine look like it's in the correct position? Is Z-Axis at home or 2nd Ref? Is the pot up or down? Is the spindle in orientation? Has the machine been powered off since the ATC troubles started?

If you have a digital copy of the ladder diagram and want to email it to me, I'll try to track down what's holding up your M31. Without that, it'll be nearly impossible to troubleshoot.

[phix]

One other thing...Will the machine execute ANY command in MDI after changing the start-interlock bit?

Try "G4X30.;"

It's just a dwell, so it won't try to move anything. If it won't execute that command, you might have more than one problem, or the ATC isn't the root problem.

[underthetire]

If the ATC is not home or ready, YOU CAN NOT EXECUTE ANY PROGRAM. If this is an early MV55, it may not have a motor to turn the ATC arm. Some early machines had a hydraulic rack for 60deg and 180deg. Those are really a pain to do.

You can try holding the feed hold button down while turning the edit key switch. I can't remember when this feature started but that put the machine in field adjust mode. (the feed hold light should flash) Then try the M31. Your machine may be to old for that. not sure.

If it it a hydraulic style, you need to go through the manual and find what rack (60 or 180) is not home. You also need to check the pot up diag. and spindle clamp diag. If you ARE VERY CAREFUL on this style machine you can manually operate the solenoid on the valve.

[phix]

underthetire,

I thought the hydraulic tool changers had been phased out by the time the MX-2 was on machines, maybe not.

Also, emexcee had mentioned changing the over-ride start interlock parameter, so I figured that would allow MDI commands.

That said, the fact that he mentioned that there are four inputs required for ATC home position could mean he has a hydraulic type ATC.

60 deg rack retract
180 deg rack retract
ATC arm up
Pot up

I always found the hydraulic type ATC easy to return from hang ups by manually firing the solenoids in sequence.

[underthetire]

I believe some mx2 and even some 10M controls were hydraulic. The machine should take an MDI M31, but sounds like it won't. If it won't take the m31, it won't take anything else for sure. I agree that usually the hydraulic ones aren't bad to recover manually with the solenoid trick, if you know what you are looking for. Move the wrong rack and your a whole lot worse. This of coarse is all moot if its electric. Need ser # with prints!

[premier_industr]

We have a MV45 with a MX1 control, we had some power supply problems a year back.

The machine would just randomly shut off a certain times, like the middle of a tool change for instance.

So we actually got pretty good at tool changer recovery.

When we had problems, we would manually cycle the tool changer solenoids to get the tool changer and pot to all of its home positions.

On our machine there is a decal with the solenoid functions right inside the hyd pump access door.

We would then go into the diagnostics page and renumber all of the tool pots and the tool in the spindle.

This information came directly from a very smart Mori tech.

He said that a lot of the older Moris would loose track of a tool if there was some type of disruption during a tool change.

The control may think that there is actually 3 tools numbered 15 for instance, 1 in the spindle 1 in the tool changer and 1 in the tool carosel.

This may confuse the control enough to lock it up and not allow MDI comands.

If you think this is the case get a hold of either Mori or myself to get some more information on this procedure.

Just remember man built it man can fix it.

[JohnnyTurn]

Speaking of interlocks and M30, M31 codes:

On my 2001 MV40E I have been told that these machines were made with the "European Safety Standards."

If that's even a real term, I don't know. What I do know is that this machine is quite impossible to disable the door interlock switch.

Most machines you can just take the key off the door mount and place it into the interlock and your good to go. On this machine that will not work. The reason is the machine cycles the interlock via the M30 code. The control will not open the door until it sees the M30. And also, it will not cycle start again until the door interlock is engaged. It must be cycled everytime. Placing the door key into the interlock will not work. You would have to reach up after every cycle and pull the key out and then put it back in to get the machine to run. Kind of defeats the purpose.

I would imagine there is some parameter change you could do to disable the door interlock? But I do not know it

Does anyone here?

JT