Need Help!- Mori-Seiki SL-1H :( OLD TIMERS WHERE ARE YOU?

[bbanfield]

Gentlemen (or ladies):

After 6 months of hair pulling, swapped hydraulic pump supply phase, main board, and memory board, I managed to bring a Mori Seiki Sl-1H / (Yasnac 2000GII) back to life. Now I just need to understand how to set up the offsets/ machine origin/ PRZ. I feel like I entered into the land of OZ. . . move aside Dorothy.

Have you run a Mori-Seiki SL-1H (with CRT)??? I need someone to help step me through setting the machine zero. . . and the tool offsets. I've gone through 3 Yasnac 2000G/lx-1 books and after hours of fruitless play I have to throw in the towel. This machine is definitely not as simple as a HAAS or as easy as a Fanuc control to setup.

I've been turning on the machine with the tool post at the limit switch position, setting the x, y . At that point all values are at zero. With tool #1 (register T01) I turn the part press the PRC button, enter the -x diameter, press reset. . . then touch off the Z and set it to zero. Then when I turn the mode switch to to bring the turret back to zero It decides that zero position is somewhere near the center line of the machine.

Firstly, the machine X axis appears to be in the reverse direction. Secondly I understand it uses G50 for home position/ reference. The LX-1 book mentions that the tool offsets be set in T50 the other books dont. I notice that T00 and T50 are blank wherein the other registers have 0's where the x, y, r values are. I'm not understand it, so - Beyond that I'm feelin pretty green.

By the way, I've got all the drawings/ manuals if you need one!

Please help me out guys. Kind regards,

[Waynno]

I thought I had this procedure typed up on my old message board, I could not
find it, I will try to give you a comprehensive run down today or tomorrow
on how to set tool I have 4 of these machines, used to have 6, once you do it, its not as tough as it appears

Wayne

[Waynno]

First off, Let me tell ya, The books supplied with these model machines
were pretty worthless, They were in the first couple of years of selling
these in the US, There were many changes made to these machines
as they evolved in the early 80s

I get people all the time ask if I have wiring diagrams and this type of data
and believe me, it is scarce. The stuff that was available was horribly
translated from Japanese to English and the info was Not written well

So anyhow, I have two exact models of SL-1H you have, I been running
these since 1984, So I may be able to help.

First thing you will need to take note of, Center-line from home to the factory
tool holders on that model is 5.0000

Also you mention things appear backwards, this tells me you prolly have
experience with newer model CNC lathes (Hass you mention) and industry
decided in the late 80s or so that the designation of X on these machines
was wrong. Its not a simple fix on these old Mori's, so I would stay with it for now

Someone like myself who still has a shop full of these older machines,
its would prolly wreak havoc on my programming techniques if I had to
switch between the positive side of thinking from negative on X designation

So, go ahead and call me old school

First thing you need to verify is home out the machine, Via Joystick
get those two lamps lit near the joystick and origen out the machine

After homing it out, lamps lit, Go to POS page, Use PAGE button
to view all four number sets

Use both hands, hit all three buttons simultaneously
X POS ORG

you should see some of those numbers zero out

then
Z POS ORG

X POS CAN

Z POS CAN

you may have to do this a couple of times to get them all to zero

This will leave Increment with some erroneous numbers

rotate the left knob you used to get into jog mode to "AUTO"

this will cancel out the increment X & Z numbers
(I use this feature to keep track of position when im hand
turning parts, Once you figure it out, you will find it handy)

Now for the offsets

Lets say we are working with tool 1

the offset data storage point for tool 1 is T51 in the offset table

How the control works, you call that number in your part program
using line code G50 T5100



Lets jump ahead to tool 2

drill

Go to offset table "OFS", find T52
The value for X will be 5.0000 (Assuming you machine is not
hammered too much and that alignment value is valid)

Just type in
X
-
5.
WR

The Z value will be the difference from home to work piece face

to set that value, put a drill in tool 2

Assuming you machine is homed out per above instructions

Rotate the turret to position 2 if things look clear

Jog the drill to the face of the part until you are happy its touching or close
enough to set

Again, Offset table, T52,
that tells you there is a number in the offset register

On the soft keypad, type
Z
0
"PRC" (PRC= Position record)
"WR" (WR = write to offset)
"Reset" (Always hit Reset to clear the register for the next tool set)
you should see a value either change or write in a new value the Z part of the table
X for now, just type in
X-5.
"WR"
"reset"
and the value of 5.0000 should pop into the table at T52

Lets go back to tool 1

Home out the machine

go to manual mode, select tool 1 with the rotary knob, and manually
rotate the turret to tool position 1, Always be careful tools dont run
into the workpiece, this machine does not have a whole heck of a lot
of work space, but in the long run, this can work to your advantage
because less travel lengths on smaller parts mean less cycle times

Next task
assuming we are in agreement T1 is a turning tool, jog down to
workpiece, turn on spindle, take a face cut, keep the tool on that
Z location
Offset table T51
Z
0
"PRC"
"WR"
Reset

To set the X, a bit more tricky, but once ya got it, I think you will find
the GII user friendly and set ups are quick

Turn on spindle, Take a clean turn on the OD, Do not move the X, Back
off the tool in Z

Calipers or Mic, check the diameter you just turned
All my machines are set as diameter, Im hoping yours is as well,
because these are the instructions for a diameter set machine

OFS
T51
type in X-
the figure you just measured, Example 1.1
X- 1.1
PRC
WR
RESET

that should calculate the the diameter figure from centerline to home position

there are a couple of ways to verify this
Clear the tool from the part, Jog it down to the number just created
in the X offset table, and see if the tool nose is visibly close to the centerline
if your work piece, That position number should relative to the one in the X
offset

Print this out, and give this a try, When you create your part program
remember these machines works in the X minus zone, header of each
tool should look like the following example
G50 T5100 (this calls the offset figure from 51 position in the offset table
G00 T0101 ( 01, calls turret position, Second 01 calls minor wear offset from 01 in OFS table
G97 S2000 M03 (Tells spindle turn on 2000 rpm)
/M08 turns on coolant "/" give you the option of block skip and no coolant)

G00 X-1.0Z.1
G01Z-1.F.01
X-1.1
G00Z0
G01X.04F.005
G00Z1.0M09 (Clears tool from part, turns coolant off)
G51T0100 (Sends machine to home position and cancels out all offsets)
M30


Adjustments to the major offsets are simple, go to the desired offset
use U+or- W+or- with number and it will calculate the addition or subtraction
on the offsets

You can also use minor wear offsets located at OFS 01-08, I dont generally
use those, they can mess with one set up to the next if you forget to clear
them

Any questions, Post them here, I will try to answer

Waynno

[bbanfield]

Wayne:

I haven't tried it out yet. . . but, you've got me pretty jazzed now and I'm stoked to see it happen when I get back to the machine. A million super thank you's in advance for your time and assistance! I'll let you know what comes out of the wash.

Brendan

[Waynno]

Please let us know if it works, I had a message board for these old Mori's, But kept
getting hacked and spammed to to no end. I just have not had time to fire it back up
with protections

Thanks

Waynno

[bbanfield]

Waynno (or is your name Wayne?):

Firstly, thank you for the detail on the machine setup. I was able to move the turret/ tool post around using the softkeys/ g-code.

Secondly, I'm kinda bummed now. I realize now that I have to jog the tool down to find the machine zero. I didn't measure accurately; but, it's around 3.50" to the centerline. I don't think the machine is hammered; but, it's definitely out of calibration. And, I don't know how to calibrate it.

Thirdly, I discovered that when I try to command the spindle on it results in a Error 1.51 M-Fin. I'm guessing the means the computer doesn't see the spinle on. What is odd with the machine is when the mode switch is rotated to the T, MDI, or Edit side - if I press the spindle on, it jogs the spindle. If I rotate it quickly to the jog, mpg, zero side and press the spindle latches on. . . otherwise if I'm slow to rotate the mode switch the spindle does not come on. ???

For me this is another snafu moment out of about a dozen I've experienced so far with this machine. . . one step forward, two steps back.

Any ideas?

Brendan

[Waynno]

On the M-Fin issue, This is something I had to address on my very first
SL-1 bought back in 1989, for a whopping $45 grand, I tell ya I it seemed
like friggen for ever to pay this thing off, So it has much sentimental
value to me, to others, Id be lucky to get 5 grand for it in todays market


Anyhow, look at the attached pic, find these little mechanical relays
there may still be a clear plastic cover to remove to access them, but
they are what gives info to the control, such as spindle agreement,
basically that goes "1" when the spindle reaches programmed RPM, and
the machine continues, The others tell control spindle is ready, spindle
alarm and such

Suggestion, during start up of spindle, have another person carefully
near this relay bank, I say carefully, because there is a lot of high voltage
activity in this cabinets

Anyhow, when M-Fin starts flashing on the CRT, Use a wood dowel or plastic
blunt object and give these relays a tap tap, and see if this clears the hang
up

This is something I learned back in the day when Yaskawa still recognized
their product and their techs were very helpful when I ran into this problem
we ID the faulty relay, the tech sent me one at no cost, and I soldered it
in myself, But that was way back early 1990s

Sorry to say, ya wont get that kind of service these days, Most likely
if this is indeed your issue, we can maybe bypass the faulty relay and get
you running

The issue of machine being off center relative to home, its not a fatal one,
quite frankly, the machine is prolly usable as is, and the offset settings will
compensate for the miss alignment, sounds like a parameter got either fiddled
with or an encoder may have been serviced and just tossed on without
alignment procedure

So one thing at a time, try the relay tap thing, if that is the issue,
I can maybe walk you though some solutions using Diagnostic table
and IDing witch relay is giving you a problem

[bbanfield]

I imagine it was a happy moment for you to pay off the bill on that first machine. I hate being in debt. Actually 6.5K is about what I've paid for my SL-1. . . to date (3.5K broken machine, with parts, and renting rigging equip.).
Thank you for the good info. I'll try it out. I chatted with a Mori technician today and he helped me with the machine home. It looks like most of the parameters I have came from another model. . . not sure what. He gave me a few parameters for a SL-2 (I believe he said). I'm a lot closer to the home position now (about 4.75" from center) but it looks like I'll need to put an indicator and adjust the home sensor position (sensor dog/block) to get my 5.000" (appearently he didn't know how to set it). He seemed to think the spindle problem was caused by a bad connection. I have yet to explore this or the relay "tapping" as you suggested. I spindle on/off did act intermittent early on then dis-appeared. My background actually is in electronics; but, without any drawings to refer to it's almost useless knowledge.

Do you like Rum?. . . I'm willing to separate with a bottle of aged Dominican rum if you'll send me your SL-1H parameters list. My SL-1H doesn't have a gear box on it. . . Anyway a small token of appreciation for your time in either case. . . just need an address. Kind Regards, Brendan

[Waynno]

I dont drink,

But the following is the correct parameter set that should
get you close, If there is a set from an SL-2 or any other model in that SL-1H, the
machine will not function at all, so this may get you running alone

Compare these, take note, there will be some soft limits and backlash values
that will be a bit off, but not by much, and also this will set you up with
300 baud 7,e,2 on your communication board if your machine is equipped,
most of these I have run across are, but the rs 232 plug has a trick to
connect it right

Have fun, any other questions, post them here, I will do my best to help

Waynno


N1X0
N2X1
N3X1
N4X0
N5X0
N6X9
N7X6
N8X0
N9X1
N10X0Z0I0K0
N11X0Z0I0K0
N12X0Z0I0K0
N13X0Z0I0K0
N14X0Z0I0K0
N15X0Z0I0K0
N16X0Z0I0K0
N17X0Z0I0K0
N18X0Z0I0K0
N19X0Z0I0K0
N20X0Z0I0K0
N21X0Z0I0K0
N22X0Z0I0K0
N23X0Z0I0K0
N24X0Z0I0K0
N25X0Z0I0K0
N26X0Z0I0K0
N27X0Z0I0K0
N28X0Z0I0K0
N29X0Z0I0K0
N30X78500Z59800I0K0
N31X-6500Z-215200I0K0
N32X0Z0I0K0
N33X0Z0I0K0
N34X0Z0I0K1
N35X0Z0I0K0
N36X53Z107I4K4
N37X0Z0I22K0
N38X0Z0I2K34
N39X8191Z565367I132K196
N40X8
N41X1
N42X0
N43X0
N44X2
N45X0
N46X0
N47X0
N48X0Z0I0K0
N49X12004Z1I4K0
N50X15
N51X4
N52X25
N53X50
N54X25
N55X0
N56X0
N57X6
N58X1Z0I0K0
N59X3Z54734I0K0
N60X0Z0I0K0
N61X1Z0I0K0
N62X2Z1I0K0
N63X32Z32I0K0
N64X8192Z8192I0K0
N65X0Z0I0K0
N66X0Z0I0K0
N67X400Z800I0K0
N68X0
N69X10
N70X0
N71X0
N72X0
N73X0Z30I500K500
N74X0
N75X0
N76X20
N77X8Z8I0K0
N78X0
N79X0
N80X1
N81X0
N82X1
N83X1
N84X1
N85X0
N86X5000Z0I0K0
N87X0
N88X0
N89X1
N90X18Z5I0K0
N91X0Z0I0K0
N92X0Z0I0K0
N93X53Z107I0K0
N94X535Z1070I0K0
N95X25Z45I0K0
N96X30Z15I0K0
N97X1770Z1000I0K0
N98X40

[ROBBY 68]

Brendan
Do you have Electrical wiring diagram?
I have an SL 2 and NO documentation, I pass thru all story you mention on your post
Now I am at point of moving axes and home correctly.
But still looking for a signal that allows machine to cycle start, it is a diagnostic I5 bit 7
While you press diagnostic key, type I and look at rung 5 you should see a 1 at bit 6 and 7, this tells you all conditions are met in order to cycle start.
Edit key, Auto mode, Turret clamp, Chuck clamp. Lubrication OK (bit 6)

I have been reading post between you n wayne, he is really good!
Had helped me a lot in the past.

Well another thing, I have find electric diagrams for spindle unit at yaskawa page
www.yaskawa.com you can download them from there.
As an electronic you will find a lot helpfull info there.

Regards
Robby

[bbanfield]

I apologize for the slow response. My computer died a few weeks ago and I'm now just trying to get it back together, so to speak. Please email me your address and I'll send you a copy of the electrical diagram. I've got a block diagram for the NC section. Kind Regards, bb@mbcorporation.com

[ROBBY 68]

BB
I have been able to isolate all interlocks and cycle start with success!
there is only one thing left.
When command G01 move, cycle start lits but No move, No alarm, just stand still.!
I know there is something wrong with spindle encoder, but it should affect only Thread cycles.
Any way I command G98 ft/min. but still getting same result.
Any ideas?
Robby