What do you use for 3d milling software with solidworks?

[jaybird22]

Hi everyone.

I own and run a small mold shop. My parts are getting more and more complex as time passes. Most now have fairly complex 3d geometry. Up until now, I have been subcontracting the 3d work out. I can't continue to do this so I'm looking to purchase a cam system capable of programing the 3d cavities, cores, inserts and electrodes. I have been reading the cad forums and can't seem to find straight answers.

Please take a moment and let me know what you're using and if you're happy with it.

I've been reading on the ones I listed below, but they all seem to lack either support, leading edge technology, clean import of files in one form or another according to the forums. I'm getting confused, so I need an opinion from someone working in the same field in order to weed out those who posted in the forums with applications that aren't close to mold making. That's why I posted here. Thank you in advance for your time.

I've been reading up on:
Cimatron
Camworks
Solidcam
Mastercam
Surfcam

[dpryor]

Check out WorkNC from Sescoi. We have had it for years and are very happy with it.

[mcphill]

Check out SprutCAM as well...

[Delw]

smartcam cnc is fantastic

[jaybird22]

Thank you all for your suggestions. I'll take a look at the recommendations.

What I'm really looking for is more than a simple suggestion of "try this". A sales person can give me that. My hopes are I can open a conversation with people that run the particular software so we can discuss it's strengths and weaknesses. Any sales person selling a product will say their product is great. They usually have examples that have been used thousands of time and have all the bugs worked out of them. We all know it's what happens when you sit down after the purchase, and start loading your own part geometry into the program that counts. If anyone out there is willing to take a moment and give me a true review of a product, either pro or con, I would appreciate it immensely!

This is a purchase I'm borderline on being able to afford, so choosing software that doesn't perform as I need it to could have a catastrophic effect on my business.

[Delw]

Most of the software your looking at is 12k and up plus maintence.

I like smart cam because its 100% capable of editing tool paths , which other cadcam softwares are not, you have 100% control over your posts ( and its easy) and you can draw on it more simple than any other cad/cam software avail.
they also have an awsum email support from other users and there customer support is top notch.


I had the chance to play with mastercam x3 in both threre trial software and one of my customers licenced version. I have over 1.5 years into dicking wth it off and on.
its complicated, solid works sucks being imported into it and you can't contol 100% of the tool paths ( but thats just my inexperiance with the software.
Mastercam does have fantastic books.

Edgecam Wont run on my pc and I havent tried to fix it sence I got the demo, the sales guy couldnt get it to work either.( I just been lagging on talking to there technical dept.) it looks promsing.

Smartcam I been using sence the early 90's in dos(v 3.5?), to v11.
in advanced milling I love it. can do almost anything with it. there newest versions are great I had the demo for a while, just havent pulled the trigger on it yet.
The lathe version of it is hands down the easiest to use.
being able to draw quickly and effectively in the program is a plus, there are not many softwares that can do that.
most 2 sd parts you can draw in just a few mins, 3d parts dont take very much time if you know hwo to draw in 3d.
I suck at solids so I dont dick them them, surfaces I am so so, wire frame is a cake walk.


main thing is how much do you want to spend and exactly what are you going to do with it. there are so many other softwares that are cheaper to do easy work.

also your not going to sit right down and start making parts with any software util you know exactly how to use it. solids may show you a pretty picture, but you still need to know what your doing to make a solid file into a part. theres going to be a learning curve.

Delw

[lukewarm]

I personally use solidworks 2010 and solidcam. Very powerful and straight forward once you understand the basic features.

Here is a video regarding mold making YouTube - Mold Design Tutorial

[mcphill]

Each of the CAM system mentioned has its own forum here, with expert users you can probe for more info. Expecting a thorough discussion of the pros and cons of the multitude of software options in your thread isn't going to get you the detailed comparisons you are looking for.

[jaybird22]

Mcphil, I understand what you're saying. I have spent hours reading the forums specific to named cam programs. Seems to me like many of the users are loyal to the product and tend to defend the product when someone tries to indicate a negative experience.

I thought I would post here to talk to actual Mold Makers/Designers. Many of the users in the specific forums aren't making molds, and when they say it's the best software they have ever used, I often find out their interpretation of 3d milling is milling different z depths, drilling, tapping, ect. Getting a response from someone programming a milling machine to drill, tap and mill basic profiles and pockets isn't going to help me.

I hoped to talk to people doing exactly what I am looking to do. Make 3d molds. Mill complex, true, 3d shapes from solid models created in Solidworks. I already have a cam package for general machining. I've been using it for years and I'm decent with it, but it's not even close to what I'm going to need.

I know there is going to be a huge learning curve. I'm ok with that. I would expect it. That's also the reason I want to research the choices thoroughly. I want to choose a Company that has a reputation for customer support. I don't want to spend a lump of money only to find that I can't get training or technical support when I get stuck.

I want a software that lets me manipulate the tool path to minimize chipping of a graphite electrode when breaking out of a cut. I need a software that's going to allow me to optimize the ramp in and ramp out of a pocket I'm trying to mill into a cavity. I'm looking for a software that doesn't go back and cut air when I switch from a roughing tool to a semi roughing tool. I want something to recognizes what material has been removed and what material remains and needs to be cleaned up with the smaller tool.

I'm not trying to be a smart ass and I'm sorry if my response comes across like that. I'm just trying to get an idea of the pro's and con's of the software packages available, from people that are doing the same thing as I am, so I hope more will be willing to share their thoughts.

Jay

[mcphill]

Not at all "offended" by your comments, they are the same as many users on here. Unfortunately I doubt you CAN get the answers you are looking for. Very few people are too familiar with a single package, so if you want an informed conversation to compare two different ones, you are basically SOL - there is slim to no chance that any single person is well versed enough in two of the systems you want to compare, much less 3, 4, 5 different systems. CAM software is the most complex piece of the CNC chain, and it is often the most costly as well - even more than the machine itself. The vast majority of users use basic 2.5 d programming, so when it comes to 3D work, you have limited your potential pool of users to a very small group...

It is clear from your posts that support is of the highest importance to you. I would suggest you focus on only this attribute, and get feedback on support from the different CAM forums. I would be willing to bet that will weed many systems out of your potential list of candidates - and I would recommend you delete BobCAD from the list given your heavy need for speedy support. BC has so-so support, but it can be a day or more before anyone gets back to you, even if you pay for premiere. Even though it offers full 3D toolpaths, roughing and finish machining, pencil and rest machining, etc., all that is irrelevant if the support doesn't meet your needs. I don't pay for support, and the CAM system is not my "lifeblood", so for me it is not that critical. I mostly post on this forum, and get the answers I need that way, or figure it out myself before a reply to my post comes up. I am likely moving on to SprutCAM because of the advanced feature set it provides over BC - simultaneous 4th and 5th axis support (vs. 4th indexing only for BC) and 9 definable tool geometry families (vs 2 for BobCAD).

If you can find a reseller in your area that supports one of the major systems, that may be your best bet, as long as that reseller has experienced support staff. Some of the titles I would look at for that are CAMWorks, MasterCAM, or Delcam, SurfCAM, HSMWorks, GibbsCAM, to name a few. Note that these systems WILL cost more! If you want support you most certainly need to go on to yearly maintenance support. This is counter to the vast majority of the users on this forum, who by and large are hobby or small shop users who are looking for the lowest entry point software to give them the capabilities they are looking for.

Given the investment you are looking at, I would require any company you are looking at to provide you with onsite demonstration of their software, and give you written guarantees of the support available. You could even have them compare and contrast their systems to the competitors you are looking for on price, support, and feature set. This is the approach I would take if I were in your shoes!

Best of luck on your search, and I would be interested to know what you end up with...

[Donkey Hotey]

I fully understand where you're coming from. It's tough and I don't have any experience with these packages but, based on what I have read and seen at Westec, I think I'd give SurfCam and Gibbs a look.

As you mentioned, they all do 2.5D stuff and lots of people are quick to recommend a package based on that. I'm a Mastercam user and I'm not totally thrilled with how it handles 3D surfaces. I can see that with a closed cavity like a mold, it could be a handful.

In particular, I'd be looking for things like what strategies does the software employ for clearing material in a 3D cavity. It also depends on your machine and its strengths.

I'd be looking for something that was good at plunge-roughing and/or volumill-type strategies within a 3D surfaced boundary. To my knowledge, Mastercam either doesn't do this or it's not something I'm aware of (in 3D cavities). I believe that clearing material quickly would be critical to your bottom line.

The next thing I'd be looking for is a variety of surface finishing routines. I don't know what your molds typically look like but, straight waterline (Z) toolpaths don't always work for good surface finish, neither do the other routines I've dealt with in Mastercam.

I don't do a lot of 3D contoured surfaces but, when I do, I find Mastercam to be rather clunky to get the kinds of toolpaths (and resulting finish) that I would like. I've also had problems with check surfaces not behaving in Mastercam (it either ignores them or leaves strange artifacts when it gets to the surface).

With all of that said, I'm not a mold shop. My needs are much more varied so I could not commit to a product that focused on one kind of machining. I needed the one-size-fits-all product. To that end, Mastercam has been a good product. If I were a mold shop, I'd take a look at some of the larger competitors like Gibbs and SurfCAM.

[mcphill]

I have added SurfCAM and Gibbs to my list of recommended products. I was seriously looking at Gibbs, but have found that SprutCAM looks to offer similar functionality at a much lower price point. For me, cost is a primary driver...

I was also thinking about my post a little more, and want to provide a little background on my input. Although I am a hobby user, I consider myself to know more about 3D machining than most users on this board. I CAM out parts for full 3D from SolidWorks and STL models "daily", and these are parts used to make rubber molds for urethane casting. It includes alignment features, sprues, vents, etc - so it is truly full 3D. I also make CAM programs for a machine shop that has a healthy business and has been in operation for 20+ years. That shop had never done ANY 3D gCode work, though, as they are "stuck" trying to learn the CAM side (they have had CAMWorks for 5+ years, and have gone to training, but when they get back to work, they don't get to practice what they learned, so they basically forget how to use it before getting around to it. This is a shop with a full 4th axis Haas machining center and a Haas lathe. Whenever they need full 3D work done, I create the GCode for them using BobCAD.

Again, for my purposes, BobCAM works great, but if you go read posts on the software, you will see most people have a hard time trying to figure out how to drill a hole in the right spot. I am not trying to insult anyone on the forum, it's just that CAM is "that much" different, that it really becomes a stumbling block for many people, and that is why the "fanboy" mentality comes out. Once they figure out how to use a single system, they don't want to go through that learning curve again to learn a new way of doing things. I am not afraid of learning a bunch of programs, I just can't afford to buy them in the first place!

I will post a few shots of some of the parts made with my CAM work in a bit...