Indexable insert tooling for newbies

[Dan S]

I should have the QCTP for my 8x14 in a few days, so it time to start learning about the next item on my tooling list. As the name of the thread states, I’m a complete dummy when it comes to indexable tooling, so I have a ton of questions (hopefully this thread can be a good resource for other newbies).

Before I get to what I don’t know (a lot), let me list what I’m looking for.

1. Universal inserts; by this I mean insert shapes that can be used in turning and boring tools. From what I have been reading this seems possible.
2. Quality tooling; while price is always a consideration, I’m not apposed to paying top dollar for a tool if I’m going to have it for many years to come.
3. acceptable finishes in varying materials; aluminum, brass, ss, steel

Ok now for the first few questions.

1. I see some places sell HSS inserts; can these be used in holders designed for carbide? I’m assuming no, but thought I should ask anyway.
2. What insert shape do people recommend/prefer? triangle, diamond, other

[rhino]

My boss a while ago, got a tool kit (1/2" shank, cheapy) lathe set off EBAY for just under AU$100 the tips were TCMT, CMPT and the boring bars were TPMT. i hope this makes sense, these are the smaller size inserts. they should be availabe from your local carbide tooling rep.

[Dan S]

I’ve been looking at this some more and It seems for hobby lathes everyone use T (triangle) or C (80 deg. Diamond) insets. Does anyone have any opinions on what type is better, or is it all just personal preference?

Does anyone have opinions on Dorian tool holders, or Tungaloy boring bars? The prices seem decent for both.

[Halfnutz]

I just got the 2007 Travers tool catalog. There are 135 PAGES of different inserts available. The whole subject is mind bogling. I did snag a really nice indexible 1" Ingersol end mill off eBay for 20 bucks, I like it but dont know where to begin as far as replacing the inserts. I geusse I'll find something the same shape and size and get a coated TiAL type, but I dont have any idea if there are other types that will work with it, or for different materials. Its a huge subject. There is alot of information in the catalog to read, they are free, 800 221-0270.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Halfnutz The whole subject is mind bogling. I did snag a really nice indexible 1" Ingersol end mill off eBay for 20 bucks, I like it but dont know where to begin as far as replacing the inserts.

these have helped me:
http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-shape.htm
http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-th-d.htm
http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-insert-d.htm

[BobWarfield]

PennTool has a sale right now on Micro100 indexable tooling. They'll sell you the tools for a small lathe. I have one in 5/16" and another in 1/2". Both work well, but the 1/2" cut a little nicer. Both are CCMT. The 1/2" is right at the borderline of what will work in the AXA toolholders and line up on the centerline of my Lathemaster 9x30 lathe. Your mileage may vary, but I have been very happy with these.

FWIW, I started out wanting to use just one kind of insert, but it just didn't work out. I finally gave up and must have tooling that uses 6 or 8 different kinds by now.

Best,

BW

[Dan S]

I spent a few hours this weekend researching, and I have all but gone the other way on indexable tooling. I talked with my father (started out life as a tool maker) and he brought to my attention that my favorite tool doesn’t have an indexable equivalent. It’s a custom design (as far as I know) I came up with. It allows me to make a right handed face cut and then make a left-handed cut all in the same pass.

Based on my father’s advice, I’m going to try the following. I’m going to try M-42 cobalt bits for turning, and then indexables for boring. One other thing, my dad mentioned was that if I came across something that the M-42 couldn’t handle I should pick up a “Tantung G” bit. Took me a while to find a place that carried it, and man is that stuff expensive.

[Dan S]

Has anyone tried these 11% cobalt bits?
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...50810&PMT4NO=0

[Adobe Machine]

Bob Warfield is correct, the CCMT with a positive rake ( 80 deg. diamond, positive rake, chipbraker ) is the best tool to REDUCE CUTTING FORCES,which is essential for a small lathe.You should have a right hand and a left hand holder, but the sharp, positive rake is what cuts, instead of pushing the turned object away from the tool.
You will reduce / eliminate chatter and bad cuts ..I use a CNMPE ( 80 degree diamond shaped, positive rake and chip breaker ) for alloy steel..Tool holders are the same..(MCLN R and MCLN L)
Check a receant thread by HUFLUNGDUNG (Hu) and see how modified a reqular carbide insert for a positive rake..really economical and it works !


Adobe (old as dirt )

[Halfnutz]

Here is a pic of the indexible end mill I got off ebay in action. It does nice shallow cuts but will not tolerate the abuse I normally enjoy dishing out to my regular HSS End Mills. It seems like a nice all around design that I will use mainly for facing and profiling, but I am uncertain as to how well it would work for deep pocketing.

I have a bunch of the carbide tipped lathe tools but as of yet have nothing indexible for the lathe. Its unbelievable how much money you can spend on tooling.

[SuperChuck]

All these abbreviations floating around....

Maybe I'm missing something... doesn't a TCMT offer a 60* angle and three new cutting edges VS the CCMT offering an 80* angle and only 2 cutting edges?

Is the CCMT suitable for threading, I thought 58-60* was the standard?

I'm sure I'm overlooking something obvious, but to me, the TCMT should be 50% less expensive to use (at the same cost) and could be directly used for threading..

SC

[philbur]

Just something to think about. You will need to look at the tip radius and the side clearance angles relative to the helix angle of the thread to determine if it can be used for threading. My guess is that it is not suitable, otherwise why produce inserts specific for thread cutting.

Regards
Phil

Originally Posted by SuperChuck I'm sure I'm overlooking something obvious, but to me, the TCMT should be 50% less expensive to use (at the same cost) and could be directly used for threading.. SC