partner 5 tool retention?

[Brian FRF]

Looks like Ive got to change out our bellville stack. Tools change fine, but are not held solid in the taper. I cant rock them, but I can rotate the tool in the spindle. Very little as it hits the key, but Id like to repair this now.

Anyone know size/spec on the washers. Id like to pick them up today, and change out over the weekend.

Also, any instruction on how to get to them would be appreciated. Ive always run machines, never had to take them apart much!

[moldcore]

Before you tear into the spindle, make sure you are using the right retention knobs and they are new. My VM24 and older Partner 1 both use knobs with a 60 deg angle for instance.

[Brian FRF]

Before you tear into the spindle, make sure you are using the right retention knobs and they are new. My VM24 and older Partner 1 both use knobs with a 60 deg angle for instance.

Right ones according to milltronics and MSC, and about 3 days old!

Did tear in, and no broken bellvilles, but look fatigued. Ive got 96, from what Ive read, should have 90. And have ~1/4" thick spacer under the top bushing.

Trying to find the specs on the bellvilles, and hopefully pick up some soon. Considering the gap between the washers is less than the thickenss of them, Im guessing what we've got are toast.

[chipsinpan]

McMaster has belleville washers for a lot less than Milltronics .
Only problem is that they are close , but not exactly the same dimensions as the stock ones . At least thats my experience from looking at the catalogue .
You can always call them and give them some dimensions and they will find a match .
My manual for my old partner 1 has instructions on how many turns to crank down to get the proper tension . This is pretty important , so if you dont get an exact match of the washers you are SOL unless you have one of those taper tension gages .

[Dave1]

Rolex Springs part number AM-231215 Those will work. To check your springs, clean them up and "ring" them like you would a grinding wheel. If they are cracked they will give a dull sound. They should be stacked 3 by 3 like this
)))((()))((()))((()))((( and there should be 90 of them. The ball cage should be tight to the drawbar and the top nut once installed should be turned finger tight then 4.5 turns to preload it. That should give you close to 600 lbs of retention force. Then the set screw should be tightened to keep the nut from coming loose. Also, there should be 4 balls in the ball cage. If you had 96 springs it sounds like they were stacked wrong. If the washers are set right you should get about 3/16 th's push out on the tool. You can put the assembly in less the ball cage. I stack the washers (grease the crap out of them with wheel bearing grease) and put the top nut on, just a few threads will do and lock the set screw so you can snug up the ball cage later. I drop it in from the top and install the ball cage from under the spindle. Tighten the ball cage and snug up the set screw in the ball cage (if there is one) then I go from the top, loosen the set screw and check the tension, if it's loose then I finger tighten it just to remove any play and go the 4.5 turns, if there is tension already then give it 4 turns and see if the cylinder will push the tool out 3/16 if not you'll have to play with it a little.
HTH's
Dave

[Brian FRF]

Thanks dave!

I knew there would a be a cross on the washers. Milltronics want 3ea or 230 for 90 of them. Im going to get into fighting more with the drawbar here. Seems like someone used the wrong loctite, and the set screw I got broke loose, the top nut is not coming off, just twisting some 1/8 x 1 steel in the ball lock!.

Interesting note. Ive got a ball lock with a set screw in it, and a washer on top of it. If I remove the washer, the set screw goes in 1 thread at best, and the tool tip hits the screw, so Im thinking this machine for whatever reason is setup to need this washer.

EDIT: anyone know doug9251 He apparently has 500+ of these washers, but hasnt been on in 6 months, and doesnt list an email.

[Dave1]

I got a bunch of washers from him last summer. The rolex washers are 55 bucks for a minimum order, you'll get about 450 springs.
You HAVE to get that ball cage off or the drawbar won't come out of the spindle.
Dave

[Brian FRF]

Did a search for rolex and that part number. Found Americanring.net In stok. 31 cents each. So 100 came to 31 bucks. Looks like 55 for 450 is a bteer deal, but again, hopefully I dont have to change these for a long while!

Ive got the ball lock off. Its the top nut that is stuck on. Ever seen a washer between the ball lock and the drawbar?

[Dave1]

Do a search for Rolex Spring, actually I think you have to call them. No, haven't seen a washer before. The setscrew may be to long, they are pretty short in the ball cage, maybe 1/4 in long? I know a guy that has a bunch of Milltronics, he checks tension every 6 months and replaces the washers every year but he's running them a solid 10-16 hrs a day. Here's a pic of a Partner 6 drawbar less the ball cage.
Dave

[Brian FRF]

Found a drawing from milltronics loose in our oh-so-tattered manual. Someone has hand drawn in "spacer" between the ball lock and drawbar. Who, when, I dont know, but somone actually added to our drawing.

Thats an aweful yellow! What is that a table?

[Dave1]

Yup, old cheap ass table. Actually an old buffet table from the 70's man. The pic makes it look more orange than it is but it is hideous. It's only out in the open for a couple days a year then it hides in storage again.
Dave