ANYONE OWN A MIKINI MECHATRONICS 1610L?

[ruawake]

Hope to hear some feedback on this new machine from some owners.

[Brains]

I would also like to hear from someone who has one, I have tried to contact Mikini heaps of times, only ever get a recorded message, no human has ever answered the phone, it worries me about the after sales service & the availability of spares should the need arise.

Tormach may end up being the machine of my choice, they always answer their phone & can speak to technical department no problems, but would love to get some remarks about the Mikini before I make my decision, they make some pretty huge statements about repeatability & accuracy, would be great if someone who has one to back the claims

All I will be doing is manufacturing components out of Aluminium, mostly 2D and some 3D stuff will come into play as well.

Look forward to some replies or opinions

Cheers

Brains

[MIKINI MECH]

Hi,

Sorry to hear you have not been able to get through. We are on the phone with customers every day. If you don't get through, we are likely on the other line. Leave us a message or send us an email and we'll get back to you within the same business day. We are happy to answer any questions, and help you decide if our machine is a good fit for your application.

Regards

Mikini Mechatronics
831.254.2012

[dynamotive]

I visited Mikini, in Watsonville, to look at the 1610L. Phil gave me about an hour and a half lecture on the machine. I’m no expert on CNC machines, but it looks very good, and it seems like they are making a serious effort to produce a quality product. I guess you could say that the machine looks like a scaled-down Hass mini-VMC, and like that machine, it uses linear bearing ways for speed and accuracy, and a Z-axis drive instead of a spindle (which means you get the full 16” Z travel). Phil said that the mill provides about 80% of the Haas’ capability for less than half the price. I watched him machine a steel plate with a carbide mill, and it buzzed right through it, no problem. The enclosure is very nice-looking, and the whole machine looks very good. The whole base, right down to the floor, is cast iron, which seems like it makes the machine much more rigid. It weighs 2,000 pounds, which makes shipping somewhat easier, and it can run off of a 20-amp 220 single-phase outlet. As a matter of fact, with the right plug, you can plug it into the dryer socket in your garage. It has a three horsepower tooth-belt drive motor, which seems like plenty to me. The motor has a special controller, so spindle speed programming should be easy.

The base machine doesn’t come with a CNC controller. What it has is a ‘controller’ with a 4-axis display (XYZA) on the front and a pendant which allows you to use it in manual mode. All you have to do is add a computer and (the recommended) Mach 3, and you’re ready for CNC. Your LCD monitor sits on top of the enclosure, and there’s a shelf for the keyboard. As an option, you can buy an ‘integrated controller’, which uses (he said) an industrial-quality mini-ITX motherboard. It fits in the back, all ready to go. The base machine uses steppers, and it comes with three stepper drivers which look very much like Gecko drives. There’s a place to connect the fourth one, of course. I said to him, what happens if you disappear? Can these drives be replaced with Gecko drives? He said, very easily. Since the machine in general doesn’t seem terribly complex, keeping it going shouldn’t be a problem. Servos are available as an option, although the steppers are undoubtedly just fine.

I asked him about the 4th axis rotary table, which is something I’m very interested in. He said that they are planning on offering it as an option, but the problem is providing something that is accurate enough at a reasonable price. Regular rotary tables just don’t cut it in angular rotation accuracy, because the worm is inherently sloppy. They have been experimenting with a special 6” Phase II rotary table, with some sort of better worm drive, and he said it should be available soon.

To me, the machine looks like an attempt to create a low-cost VMC that uses as many non-proprietary elements as possible, but which still has fairly high standards of speed, accuracy and rigidity. He said they use their own stepper drives instead of Geckos because the Geckos just weren’t consistent enough. Tool changers are not on the menu at the moment, so if you have a shop, and you need to churn out parts, get a Haas. But, if you want a nice-looking enclosed machine that can do some fairly serious cutting, and will easily fit in your garage, this looks like a pretty good thing. I’m seriously considering getting one, but first I have to make room in my garage for it.

Incidentally, I asked Phil how they got into this. It’s the old story. They needed to do a bunch of machining, and a machine shop quote brought them up short. They looked around for some kind of CNC machine to get, and eventually got a small one that proved totally inadequate. At some point, somebody said “Hey! We can do way better than that!” Now they have a couple of facilities in China. The assembly building in Watsonville is not in an industrial park, it’s on a kind of back road, but inside it are three or four machines being assembled, all spoken for, I gathered. Phil said waiting time on orders right now is about four weeks. I asked him how many machines they have sold, and he said “I can’t tell you that.” Can’t, or won’t? He also does not offer referrals, saying “We don’t ask our customers to sell our machines for us.” An understandable attitude, considering that they would have no control over what the customer said or did, but it seems that sales will be slower until enough of these machines get out into the world so that you don’t have to go to Watsonville to see one.

[Brains]

That's great that you have visited Mikini, but I still need to at least see video's of the machine in action cutting parts out of Aluminium at least, I have read many posts of other forum members asking the same & Mikini themselves have replied that the video clips are on the way, but I have never seen any & if I am wrong please someone direct me to where I can view them.

Tormach gave me a list of clients in Australia which have their machines, I have contacted each one of them & I must say they all stated the after sales service and assistance was outstanding, no one bagged the product even the ones that had some issues with the spindle speed not being maintained right out of the box said Tormach was quick to send out the components top rectify the problem, you see I am worried about purchasing something which I still to date have never heard from an owner, then when you stated that they will not forward any clients details over so they can be contacted, it makes me very worried in thinking that they may not have any clients at all to date, the claims they make sound great but I need to be ensured by some owners or somthing that the claims are correct & not just sales pitch, I live on the other side of the world & its a huge decision for me, & I need to get it right, Im actually getting to the point now that the Tormach is the safest decision to make.

Anyway just my thoughts on it all

[MIKINI MECH]

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcTOvWZpSwA"]YouTube - Mikini CNC VMC Multi Application review 1610L Vertical machining center

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ego1ZA_Cr4"]YouTube - Mikini cnc 1610L - VMC 2.5 profile Press Die in 4140 hard steel

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD2Mo-UrUU0"]YouTube - HARD MILLING Mikini 1610L CNC VMC HARD Milling a HSS END MILL

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJr08KhFcvs"]YouTube - Mikini 1610L CNC machining center - Circular interpolating in 1045 carbon steel

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoFRBp90Hig"]YouTube - PRECISION CNC circular interpolation 1045 HIGH CARBON steel 2.500" BORE Mikini 1610L

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t75q5ghZLU0"]YouTube - HIGH MRR CNC Aluminum machining 6061 T6 - Mikini 1610L CNC VMC - Material removal rate

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTTAs8YgZuY"]YouTube - Mikini 1610L CNC Machining center VMC hog Slotting aircraft aluminum 6061 T6


Compare the Mikini 1610L to the Tormach PCNC 1100 and a HAAS Mini Mill
for use in a small business

http://www.mikinimech.com/dare%20to%...e%20mikini.pdf

For direct comparison take a look at these 2 clips:

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnOdXxklWqk"]YouTube - Cutting 1" bar of 6061 Aluminum - Tormach CNC Application

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTTAs8YgZuY"]YouTube - Mikini 1610L CNC Machining center VMC hog Slotting aircraft aluminum 6061 T6

[mechie]

I've only had time to set it up and play around with it a little bit, but I can vouch it is a legitimate machine and it comes from a legitimate company. Phil has been very responsive to any issues I've had, and even made a small customization for my garage's wiring situation. If you want precision, it takes two clicks on the jog pendant before it moves .0001" in any axis. The machine looks very stout and is trussed for stiffness as advertised. I am a mechanical design engineer, and I peppered Phil with questions before I bought the mill; they did their homework when designing this thing: the table is scraped, not ground, the casting is both artificially and naturally aged, all axis are independently controlled, etc. I was looking to buy a Tormach before, and I think Tormach makes a good product if you don't need the precision, but I would rather have the ability to cut my own higher tolerance parts as opposed to having them sent out.

[ruawake]

Would really like to hear how the Mikini mills some ss with some large tooling.

Thanks,
RU

[howecnc]

I should have one in a week or two and plan on doing a comparison to the tormach machine I also own. The post I put up will be in the benchtop forum.

[Smolder]

I've had a great series of email exchanges with Phil, and in each, heh has answered each and every one of my questions quickly, and fully.

I had been considering the Tormach, but the lack of a high-speed spindle option (and no, that bolt-on engraver doesn't count), keeps it off my list. Phil says the Mikini will soon have a 20K+ spindle option, which will enable me to mill my small prototype injection molds much each more easily than I do with my little Taig.

As soon as he has the new spindle ready to view, I'll be flying down to take a look and I'll post my thoughts here, once I do.

[fillupc]

Ordered two of these machines at the beginning of this week. I will keep all of you posted as to my experience with the company and the machines. Actually, one is for me and the other for my Dad. So far, my only complaint would be time to ship. This may just be me. I am very impatient to receive my purchases following payment. Also, I need the equipment asap to mill some parts for other equipment that is currently at a stand still.

Wish me luck!

[ruawake]

I think we all are waiting for a really serious comparison between the Tormach, and the Mikini, would also like to see industrial hobby's mill in this comparison. They seem to be roughly the same price, give a thousand or 3.