Questions anyone?

[howecnc]

Right now I am monitoring this forum at least once every two days.
If anyone has questions please feel free to ask.

Howecnc

[SWATH]

Hi Chris,

I have some to start off.

1. Do you find the touch screen worth it?
2. Do you notice the extra HP or faster speeds over the Tormach?
3. Do you like the full enclosure style of the Mikini over the open style Tormach?
4. What do you manufacture and do you find the Mikini to significantly increase production over the Tormach?
5. What Cam software do you use?
6. How does the Mikini handle hard steels
7. Do you feel servos would be a worthwhile upgrade?
8. What do you like and dislike about the Mikini over the Tormach?
9. Did you get the Mikini tooling package or any other options from them?
10. How realistic are small production runs on this size machine (<300 parts assuming something about as complex as 2"x3" steel ballcock)?

Thanks for your willingness to answer questions.

[howecnc]

1. Do you find the touch screen worth it?
I like not having to need a clean place for a mouse to sit but you do need to keep one finger clean

2. Do you notice the extra HP or faster speeds over the Tormach?
the faster rapids and smoother motions are great but I don't believe 1hp makes all that much difference.

3. Do you like the full enclosure style of the Mikini over the open style Tormach?
The enclosure was a must for the second machine as it was closer to where I program. I fully intend to enclose the Tormach eventually.

4. What do you manufacture and do you find the Mikini to significantly increase production over the Tormach?
I manufacture a wide variety of R&D parts mostly and I use the machines as a team to prevent breaking down operations to setup new ones. If a part takes four operations to make I can keep all the tooling and fixtures in place if needed. If I only need to make 1 piece and ruin it on the last operation it won't be such a set back.

5. What Cam software do you use?
EdgeCAM

6. How does the Mikini handle hard steels
I have cut 4140 with the Mikini so far and it seems to handle it a little better than the Tormach.

7. Do you feel servos would be a worthwhile upgrade?
For small machines like these I don't see where the servos are worthwhile and I also guess it would be specific to the needs of surface finish for the parts being made.

8. What do you like and dislike about the Mikini over the Tormach?
I like the enclosure, the accuracy, the sound and the rigidity.
I don't like the website and the lack of posted information, the Tormach is a bit easier to setup a job in.

9. Did you get the Mikini tooling package or any other options from them?
I got an ER25 collet chuck with a set of five collets.

10. How realistic are small production runs on this size machine (<300 parts assuming something about as complex as 2"x3" steel ballcock)?
That depends on the creativity of the guy programming the job.

[mcphill]

Thanks for your participation on the board.

I just sent Phil my final payment on Monday, so I should have my machine in a couple weeks...

[SWATH]

Thanks for your participation on the board.

I just sent Phil my final payment on Monday, so I should have my machine in a couple weeks...

Of course we want a full report with pics and video!

[pkelecy]

7. Do you feel servos would be a worthwhile upgrade?
For small machines like these I don't see where the servos are worthwhile and I also guess it would be specific to the needs of surface finish for the parts being made.

I would expect servo's to position more precisely, although the difference may be minor. However, they're also much more energy efficient. So for the same input power (which could be limited if used in, say, a home shop environment) you get more output power (i.e. can make faster feeds or deeper cuts). Conversely, it uses less power for the same work. So if you run the machine a lot, it could make a noticeable difference in your electric bill.

I guess it all depends on price premium Mikini charges, but definitely worth considering, I think.

[SWATH]

I would expect servo's to position more precisely, although the difference may be minor. However, they're also much more energy efficient. So for the same input power (which could be limited if used in, say, a home shop environment) you get more output power (i.e. can make faster feeds or deeper cuts). Conversely, it uses less power for the same work. So if you run the machine a lot, it could make a noticeable difference in your electric bill.

I guess it all depends on price premium Mikini charges, but definitely worth considering, I think.

True, I know the servos are more power efficient but I don't know how dramatically that would translate into the electric bill. The upgrade cost is $1000 per axis. I'm tempted but but that sounds kind of high (although I don't know much about it). I was also concerned as I read somewhere that the stepper motors will hold their static position with much more force than servos, although the servos have like 3 times the power.

I like that servos are quieter (I'll have the machine in the house). I like that they are faster since I plan on doing production. Potentially more accurate and use less power. Also If I can upgrade the 4th axis with a servo I may be able to do faster turning operations like fast single point threading.

My main concerns are if all the added speed and such will really be useful on a 16x16x10 travel work space and if the 4th axis can be equipped with a servo and if so can it get a decent RPM. Of course the cost, $4000 for XYZA.

[SWATH]

Also Howecnc intimated that one could potentially get a better surface finish with servos over steppers.

[pkelecy]

True, I know the servos are more power efficient but I don't know how dramatically that would translate into the electric bill.

That would be hard to say without knowing more about the parts you plan to make, the load they place on the servos during milling, how many hours a day you expect to run, etc. But what I can tell you, as a point of comparison, is that an induction motor (typically 85 to 90% efficient) can consume it's cost in electricity in as little as 2 weeks. At least that's what I've read. I expect that assumes 24/7 operation, which is not uncommon in industrial settings, and reflects how cheap induction motors are. But it does illustrate how the power consumption can add up under heavy use, especially when dealing with 2 to 3hp motors.

One other consideration is the speed. If you do expect to be in a production mode, and going with servos saves you, say, 1 hour day, then they could pay for themselves fairly quickly. For example, assuming 200 days per year of operation at a "machine rate" of, say, $20/hr, the savings would be $4000 the first year. I don't know how realistic those values are (depends again on your situation) but it does illustrate another potential payback servos might provide.

Anyway, more food for thought! I'll be interested in hearing how the Mikini works out for you which ever way you go.

[howecnc]

When I say a better surface finish, I believe the stepper motor don't hold the same resolution that the servos do.
I don't know that for a fact buy I have run many machines with servos and two machines with steppers and I believe the 3d surfacing and g2/g3 interpolation is better with servos.

[SWATH]

When I say a better surface finish, I believe the stepper motor don't hold the same resolution that the servos do.
I don't know that for a fact buy I have run many machines with servos and two machines with steppers and I believe the 3d surfacing and g2/g3 interpolation is better with servos.

I see, that makes sense.

[mcphill]

FYI, you can also upgrade to servos later, if you find you need them, and after you "outgrow" your steppers. By that time, you should be making enough income from the machine to pay for the upgrade, and can also sell the used steppers and controllers to offset some of the cost...