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You might want to contact howecnc, he has both a Tormach and a Mikini. I think he is willing to show the machines. He is in the northeast if that is any help to you.
bob
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Hi everyone,
I have been researching CNC stuff like crazy for the past couple of months since I haven't been able to get a shop to make my parts for a reasonable cost (or at all). Being totally new to CNC I read everything I could on line, ordered supplier catalogs to skim, watched every CNC video and tutorial on the internet, and even may enroll in some machine shop classes at the local university. I initially contemplated converting a Bridgeport type knee mill until I discovered the Tormach. The size and "plug and play" interface attracted me as I'm not interested in futzing around with an expensive frustration and having inventor/R&D pursuits I need to be making chips instead for prototyping and small production runs. Pretty much decided on the Tormach so I read every page on that forum. Then I read about the Mikini and checked out the comparison chart and am now wondering if this is the machine for me for approximately the same cost.
It has a smaller footprint than the PCNC 1100 which is great for my small garage, full enclosure, faster rapids, more HP, and purportedly more repeatability, precision, accuracy, and rigidity.
I have no tooling whatsoever other than a dial caliper and a spare desktop computer with AutoCAD 2005 (and decent working knowledge of how to use it). So I am essentially starting from scratch (I also have no CAM or controller software other than the free MACH3 and LazyCAM demo)
I'm interested in learning more from you guys about this machine and if it is right for me. I'll probably need to purchase it sometime within the next few months to get my stuff going, as a friend has said, right now I'm like an artist with no paint brush. I've got a lot of ideas and one thing that is already designed, prototyped, tested, and ready for small production runs. BTW what I mostly intend to cut is 4140 steel with some 3D contouring and I'm afraid of it taking FOREVER per part, as well as 6061 and 7075 aluminum. What do all of you have to say about the Mikini 1610L (especially in regards to the Tormach PCNC 1100 or others)? Thanks!
You might want to contact howecnc, he has both a Tormach and a Mikini. I think he is willing to show the machines. He is in the northeast if that is any help to you.
bob
Thanks rowbare,Originally Posted by rowbare
I read in one of his previous posts that he had both and preferred the Mikini, in fact that is what got me interested in checking out the Mikini. I'm not sure if I would be able to make it up to the northeast anytime soon but hopefully he will post his detailed opinions on the two machines here. Unfortunately there is just not a whole lot of info out there about the Mikini and tons about the Tormach.
I'm in the same boat as you: I don't want to spend a whole bunch of time configuring a machine, building enclosure, etc. I also considered the Tormach initially, but after hearing about other machines, such as the Mikini and even Industrial Hobbies, I soon focused my attention elsewhere. I think that the Tormach mill is great for hobbyists, but I am not a hobbyist and need a machine that can perform day in and day out with repeatable accuracy and precision. Since my budget and shop space will not allow me to purchase a VMC, or even a used VMC, I will probably end up purchasing the 1610L.
Since I don't have a machine yet, my best advice to you is to send Mikini an email with some questions. Phil will give you his technical expertise that may help you decide on what to purchase in the long run.
One thing I would check is that Tormach or Syil have a lot of options to offer.
I'm also on the market for a small cnc mill and I'm also considering the Mikini but I like the Syil X7 too. It is more expensive but will have an ATC soon and full enclosure and servo motor.
I would like to use it as a prototyping machine so an ATC is a must for me.
But if I have to choose between Tormach and the Mikini, I think I would go for the Mikini because of spindle power and it's enclosure.
Jeff
Yeah I glanced at the Syil X7 but didn't really know what to make of it. It doesn't offer any advantage over the Mikini that I can see (other than an ATC). I think Mikini needs to get on an ATC ASAP. I would love to have an ATC but I guess it is not necessary at first. If I had time and Mikini was opposed to offering one I would contemplate retrofitting one if possible. I don't know much about Syil machines are they pretty good? I hope a Mikini rep shows up here and to talk about their machine. I've got an idea of making multiple parts simultaneously on the 4th axis and then separating them later for finish machining on the remaining sides. There is pocketing on 4 sides and contouring/profiling on 2 and I'm worried that a machine of insufficient power, speed, and rigidity would take way to long to make affordably. Judging by the speed of the Mikini cutting 4140 in the video, I think it would be more than adequate. An ATC would be a game changer because I can envision this part requiring at least 7 different tools (probably more) while in the 4th axis and 5 or 6 tools while in a vice for finishing. With lots of contouring I don't want to be doomed to sit and babysit the process but I will if I have to for awhile.
The ATC on the Syil is nothing special. It is simply a wine rack type holder on the end of the table. Anyone with a milling machine can duplicate it in a few hours. They use a power drawbar and a TTS clone system for holding tools.
Tormach has shown a nice little umbrella tool changer. If it makes it to market, it should be easy enough to adapt to other machines.
All the Mikini is lacking at this point is a power drawbar setup.
bob
What tool holders would you use with an ATC? I'm guessing regular r8 shank is no good, would you need to use TTS? Or perhaps the BT30 spindle?
Last edited by SWATH; 08-13-2010 at 11:36 AM.
The ATC on the Syil is nothing special. It is simply a wine rack type holder on the end of the table. Anyone with a milling machine can duplicate it in a few hours. They use a power drawbar and a TTS clone system for holding tools.
The ATC on the Syil is an umbrella type with 10 tools.
It is not a rack type holder.
Jeff
I am sorry if I misinformed anyone but the only tool changer discussion I had followed referred to a table mounted changer in relation to the power drawbar.
Doing a bit more research I saw some talk of a carousel tool changer to be offered on the enclosed X6 and X7s with price tags in the 18-20K range. These machines are to my knowledge not yet available.
Until then, the only automatic tool changer on their website is precisely what I describe: http://www.syil.net/en/productShow.asp?id=515
bob
For the current machines, the most practical is to use TTS with a power drawbar system.
While there seem to be some BT30 options, most of these use drawbars as opposed to the pull stud and gripper systems that are needed for ATC user. I imagine that the as yet unseen carousel tool changer that Jeff mentions will be BT30 based.
bob
This is how you change tool on the Mikini.
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpakDrUo_lY"]YouTube- 1610L MIKINI CNC MACHNING CENTER CHANGING TOOLS[/nomedia]
Those are pictures for the X7 with ATC and servo motor.
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