Quitting CNC trade

[supra3k]

I went to school for CNC/Machining last 2 semesters. I had alot of fun learning and got excellent grades. The problem is... I'm 24 years old and have gotten "laidoff" 3 times in the past three months from these stupid f*cking machine shops. All these mother f*ckers (supervisors) are old ass sh*ts, trying to run an old skool thought of business.

The first supervisor I had was a douche bag, he knew nothing about me. I had to tell him that I went to school for machining. He didn't even know that much, even though the company paid for my scholarship. He was told by the owner to put me on a machine. I started (training) working with another new hire. The cycle time was long, 2-3 hours, so there was not much to do between those times.

I inspected parts my first couple of days. I felt bad for the guy i was working with because he had absolutely nothing to do. So i decided that he should do some inspection that day. Well, the supervisor came around to ask him what i had been doing all day (dumb-ass pollack) , said i "did nothing". After that day, my supervisor pulled me off and stuck me in assembly. At first, i figured he just didn't have work for me but i seen kids with no experience and no schooling were being trained as i was working bullsh*t jobs. He put me on machines here and there. Until one day, where he put me on a job, without giving me much explanation of how to do it properly. I made a simple mistake, the fixture for the part had to adjusted by hand for each part (no error proofing of job(lean thinking)). Made a few scrap parts, and was called in by the owner of the company, without warnings or a chance to even speak. The owner said he is laying me off.

I was pissed but kinda of relieved. Hoping for better opportunity, I was unemployed for about a month. Then, got a job with a medical manufacturer. Worked about a month, when I was talking with a coworker about another guy that has crashed a machine.I mentioned it to that worker, next thing I know, myself and my coworker got "laidoff". The kid was a rat, and I mean kid, 22 years old.

Then , i got another job with an aerospace manufacturer. They offered me night shift (12 hour). I said yes, cause i wanted to get in. Two weeks in, the hiring manager calls me in to say he doesn't believe I can do the job. Based on other workers "comments". Bullsh*t, i know i could have done the job. It's CNC , not thermonuclear engineering. The funny thing is, there was a guy working there who didn't know how to properly true a tool. He has been machining for 5 years! There was not much I could say, the manager had already made up his mind. Just like the previous jobs.

Well, i just wanted to *unload* all my frustration. I think the industry needs a major overhaul with it's business practices. All these old timers retiring, and the new guys don't have the same work ethic. I believe the industry had better adapt to these new hires. Or they will have no-one to run any machines.

Also, are machinists the only trade workers that are not confident enough or smart enough to start unions?

And, lean thinking is bull****. All it really does is benefit the company. None of these shops care about the workers. Times, have changed since the fifty's. Sons of owners have taken over these shops and all they are interested in is the profit margin. THEY DON"T CARE ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL WORKER!

So, F*CK you machine shops. I'm going off to lineman training in a couple weeks. They start at $22 an hour as an apprentice!, and a journeyman continues at $35 with plenty of overtime.

[WayneHill]

Originally Posted by supra3k ... Well, i just wanted to *unload* all my frustration...

Yes you did. Life lessons can be difficult.

Good Luck.

[dertsap]

Originally Posted by supra3k . It's CNC , not thermonuclear engineering. .

some are very successfull while many others are incapable of walking beyond button pushers , this isnt a trade for everyone

[davereagan]

I don't think the problem is CNC vs. lineman work. During those 2-3 hour cycle times, did you clean up around your area or did you think you're too good for that because you went to school?

[dertsap]

Originally Posted by davereagan I don't think the problem is CNC vs. lineman work. During those 2-3 hour cycle times, did you clean up around your area or did you think you're too good for that because you went to school?

exactly

I had a guy who was fairly fresh out of school who thought he was smart , thought that he was above the work i gave him , refused to do the tasks that i ask him to do while he had a 45 munute cycle , so i threw him into the deburring dept for a week with the hopes he would appreciate the opportunity that we had placed in from of him , within a week of him being back on the machines his attitude was just as bad as ever , i had him out of the building immediately

and what the hell is lean about two guys standing around for three hours doing NOTHING

[Switcher]

During those 2-3 hour cycle times, did you clean up around your area or did you think you're too good for that because you went to school?

It really doesn't matter If he was cleaning up between cycle times. How many times can a guy sweep/mop the same area around the same machine? I clean up around 2 machines, while they run in less than an hour, while checking parts & loading material.

Sounds like it's an issue with a leadman/supervisor being lazy, they know what the cycle times are, they should have something else for you to do (run 2 or more machines, etc...).


.

[NC Cams]

The new, educated kid is a threat. Their knowledge gives them confidence which makes it harder to be intimidated. ALL jobs can be a situation of power vs control.

The meek are easily intimidated. Easily knocked down and built up the way the old timers want. It is hard to have knowledge, be meek and still have the attitude necessary to get ahaed.

Having said that, why did the guy who unloaded make 3-4 bad parts WITHOUT asking for help?. Too much attitude? too much schooling? Too much "UofM" "I'm a degreed individual" attiude? Clearly the kid didn't know as much as he thought and he didn't "know it all". You fubar'd 3 BEFORE you found out about the setup trick??? I'd fire you for that on the spot as well.

No matter where you work, you have to EARN the respect of idiots, egomaniacs and just down right ignorant people. DEAL WITH IT. If you think for a minute that lineman are going to be any different, YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

FUBAR a machining, you lose some money for he owner. FUBAR with high power, you could get fried.

I started out with a similar attitude - by my thrid job, it took be 10 years to get run off.

Take my advice. LEarn to bite your tongue. Learn to ask for help even if it is NOT needed - you're less of a threat. You control your destiny, sometimes by what you day and do and toehr times what you DON"T do or say.

Rant all you went, point fingers at lean thinkers all you want, when you point a figner at them, theree are pointing back at you.

[LeeWay]

I don't care how much a fella learns in school, each and every position you fill will need it own skill set. Schools can teach the why for's, formula's how to use tools, machinery setup and operation, etc...
Every job you go to will require more experience On The Job. The Foreman should step you through what they expect once or twice anyway. No matter how you do something, it isn't going to be just the way they want it done every time.

To get anywhere to start with, you have to show initiative. This goes for just about any job. Show them that you want to make money for the Boss. If you have long cycle times, ASK what you can do in the meantime. It may be that you need to observe the machine. They may want you to help out somewhere else. You need to show the initiative though and realize once you've hit the start button, you are costing the man money if you aren't doing anything else.
Prove to them you are willing to do more. They would be more likely to keep you around.
They made the first move by hiring you. It's your move next.
Grab assing and gossip as well as *****in will or at least should get you fired from any place with machinery. It can be incredibly dangerous if your attention is not where it should be. In such cases, when guys are let go for these reasons, they are possibly saving someones life or limb.

The sooner these things are learned by a new worker, the sooner he or she will start climbing a ladder to higher pay and better benefits and may actually earn him or her some respect from Peers and management. Okay......maybe not management, but you get the idea.

Good luck on the high wire act. You'll likely be working directly under some of those same types of people there as well.

[supra3k]

Originally Posted by Switcher It really doesn't matter If he was cleaning up between cycle times. How many times can a guy sweep/mop the same area around the same machine? I clean up around 2 machines, while they run in less than an hour, while checking parts & loading material. Sounds like it's an issue with a leadman/supervisor being lazy, they know what the cycle times are, they should have something else for you to do (run 2 or more machines, etc...). .

I think you said it exactly right. Obviously, I cleaned and did everything i could out of respect for the supervisor and my new opportunity. However, there is only so much time you can clean and organize before you get to a point where you have absolutely nothing to do. The supervisor came around at all the wrong times. I was just standing there trying to think of something to do. I hate pretending to be busy, I feel like it is a huge waste of time. I love working hard and earning my paycheck.

And, yes I do feel like the supervisor was lazy. Just cause you work 50+ doesn't make you an A+ diligent worker. Some of these supervisors are running around back and forth between the experienced machinists leaving the new guys helpless. Why? I think cause they wanna feel responsible for all the parts in the shop. The experienced guys should be left to make their own decisions instead of having the supervisor make every decision for them.

Every machinist brings his own skills and abilities to the shop floor. The supervisor should be making decisions about where each person belongs (updating over time). I don't think a supervisor should be an uber-machinist who needs to run every machine.

[dertsap]

Originally Posted by supra3k I don't think a supervisor should be an uber-machinist who needs to run every machine.

who do you think is the first guy standing in front of the fan when Sh$% hits it , your supervisor thats who , then after having a strip tore of of him because of your screw up he's usually the same guy who comes back to you with a slight smile and says don't sweat it , we'll make another one .theres more going on with that guy than you would like to know

new guys tend to be put on non critical jobs , and are left alone to see if they are capable of doing the job themselves , noone wants to overwhelm the new guy with info , also information travels far better from a fellow employee than it does from the boss , we used to set new guys with one of the senior employees , this way the intimidation factor is much less if the new guy has a question

doesn t matter where you go the boss may be good he may be bad , but the boss is the boss and he has earned that , and youve got to show that respect if you want to have that job someday
plus who's cutting the cheque and who needs it

[supra3k]

Originally Posted by NC Cams The new, educated kid is a threat. Their knowledge gives them confidence which makes it harder to be intimidated. ALL jobs can be a situation of power vs control. The meek are easily intimidated. Easily knocked down and built up the way the old timers want. It is hard to have knowledge, be meek and still have the attitude necessary to get ahead. Having said that, why did the guy who unloaded make 3-4 bad parts WITHOUT asking for help?. Too much attitude? too much schooling? Too much "UofM" "I'm a degreed individual" attiude? Clearly the kid didn't know as much as he thought and he didn't "know it all". You fubar'd 3 BEFORE you found out about the setup trick??? I'd fire you for that on the spot as well. FUBAR a machining, you lose some money for he owner. Take my advice. LEarn to bite your tongue. Learn to ask for help even if it is NOT needed -

Very insightful thought about the new guy being a threat. This lesson I learned.

As for making scrap parts. I wasn't given a setup sheet, or dimensions, or tolerances. He just showed me what to do and left me alone. I didn't realize i was making scrap parts till the next op guy came over to tell me. It was a, "make me busy doing a crappy job" situation.

Losing money for the owner is old skool thinking. I will tell you why... We don't live in the industrial age any more. From http://www.epi.org/economic_snapshot...hots_20060621/

"In 2005, the average CEO in the United States earned 262 times the pay of the average worker, the second-highest level of this ratio in the 40 years for which there are data. In 2005, a CEO earned more in one workday (there are 260 in a year) than an average worker earned in 52 weeks." "In 1965, U.S. CEOs in major companies earned 24 times more than an average worker"

I can hardly support my family on a machinist salary but i need to be concerned about how much richer I'm making the owner? The difference is, when these guys grandfathers started the shops, they treated employees almost as part owners of the company.

I don't believe in the notion of "steal from the rich and give to the poor". But, i do believe in dignity.

And, i did bite my tongue. That's probly what got me into trouble in the first place. Should have spoken up (which i did partially on my review papers). In the end though, no warnings, no sitdowns, no verbal warnings. Nothing. Nada. Just the "step into my office" and "you're FIRED". Didn't even want to hear what i had to say.

[supra3k]

Originally Posted by dertsap who do you think is the first guy standing in front of the fan when Sh$% hits it , your supervisor thats who , then after having a strip tore of of him because of your screw up he's usually the same guy who comes back to you with a slight smile and says don't sweat it , we'll make another one .theres more going on with that guy than you would like to know doesn t matter where you go the boss may be good he may be bad , but the boss is the boss and he has earned that , and youve got to show that respect if you want to have that job someday plus who's cutting the cheque and who needs it

I understand the supervisor gets S$*t. I understand his plea as well. So think about it. Who is his boss? The owner. The owner is just interested in profits. I'm just trying to warn the incoming generation of machinists, get unionized, quick! By the way, my boss didn't smile, he threw the part across the way and yelled "this is a f*cking scrap part".

Earned his job? Doing what? Putting up with his boss's crap before his time? Shouldn't the perfect candidate be best educated, best skilled? This guy was calling dial calipers "verniers". His original Bachelors degree had nothing to do with the industry. Who else earned it? The owner? He was born into it, all the hard work was done for him. That is the reason he has no respect for YOU.

Who cares about who cuts the cheque? I'm offering my services too. I'm paying the owner with my time. Think about it that way. It is an exchange. You make it seem like the owner has more value as a human being than i do, just cause he has a higher net worth. Where would these companies be, if not for the workers?