steel to brass connection

[DisgruntledUser]

I would like to make a small (about 1/4") permanent connection between steel and brass pieces.

the connection will require considerable strength (for frequent use) and able to withstand high temperatures (not sure but guessing around 500+ degrees, the higher the better).

I was thinking along the lines of some sort of weld or bonding material, rather than a mechanical connection like a bolt.

Any suggestions or ideas?

thanks so much in advance!

[High Seas]

Having a problem visualizing the fit here

I would like to make a small (about 1/4") permanent connection between steel and brass pieces.

Are the pieces 1/4 inch, the connector or????

the connection will require considerable strength (for frequent use) and able to withstand high temperatures (not sure but guessing around 500+ degrees, the higher the better).

Is the use; bending at the join, rotation, general flex from handling, or???

Hmmm high temp too - an interestin combo steel and brass - you'd probably get some thermal bending at the join as well - and would a braze or weld "work " to failure? My metalurgy experience is a but dusty - but I'm sure some of the folks would have some insights - maybe if you could share a picture or more complete description of how the "bits" fit.
Just a few questions - Happy New Year Jim


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[DisgruntledUser]

Happy new year!

Thanks for responding.

My idea is basically a steel plier with a brass jaw on it. So the point where they come together will be where the connection is needed. This also should help explain the useage, general flex from handling is really the only force applied. The plier will be closing in on the outside of the jaws and should take up the sqeezing force as the jaws come together, the strength of the connection would be mainly to keep everything aligned properly incase the tool was dropped, stepped on or misused.

So being that the connection is part of a 'tool' the stronger the better and also since used in high heat application, the more heat tolerance the better.

I have a wire feed welder which I have been doing steel to steel connections with, but I'm not sure that would work for steel to brass, my guess is it won't.

Just hoping to find some suggestions as to any good options that might be out there.

Thanks again!

[High Seas]

Soooo..if I get it - the brass pieces are like "covers" or pads to the jaws of the steel plier--kinda like the plastic ones you sometimes see? An advantage to a mechanical fastening - it can be removed and the parts replaced if damaged. Counter-sunk rivets can be drilled out - bolts and screws un-turned, and pins pulled. - just my 2 bits Jim

[DisgruntledUser]

Yep, basically pads for the plier jaws. Big, fat, special pads.

There are definite advantages to mechanical fasteners. The only disadvantage is the increased time involved with enigineering a solution that will work with my application. Manufacturing time would likely increase too with a mechanical connection.

So I was hoping to find a solution that would just bond the materials together.

This is a production item, not just a one time operation. The purpose of switching to brass instead of steel which I'm currently using, is the brass would probably be easier / faster to machine than steel. If I could just find a reliable way to bond the two materials.

I have done quite a bit of thinking about a screw type connection during the designing of this project... maybe in the future that will become a possibility.

[jerber]

Maybe it's an idea to hardsolder (siversolder) them. It's a pretty strong connection.
I assume that the temperature you're giving (500+) is in Fahrenheit and a hardsoldered connection should handle that.

But since this is a production item I think that mechanical connection is cheaper and faster.

btw Happy New Year to all !

Jeroen

[motomitch1]

You could use the Braze-welding process using oxyacetylene flame,copper base filler rods and flux.

[Geof]

For brass onto steel your only practical choice is silver soldering; low temperature brazing is the technical term welders use I think. You can get the brazing material in thin sheet form something like shim stock a few thou thick. The trade name for the stuff I have used is Braze 450.

You flux your two surfaces, steel and brass and then clamp them together with a piece of the brazing material between. In your case this is dead simple given what you are making. Then you heat the joint area to around 450 degrees Celsius to form the joint. This is commonly done in an oven and if you want to be fancy you purge the oven with an inert gas to avoid discoloring the part by oxidation in the area around the joint. Even when heating with a gas torch this can be a feasible production process particularly if you rig a little machine to hold the part and carry it through a flame at the correct speed. Alternatively induction heating can be used.

Google Braze 450 and you get over 100,000 hits.

[motomitch1]

You could use the Braze-welding process using oxyacetylene flame,copper base filler rods and flux.

Here we are presenting Braze-welding, a similar but different process, more forgiving in joint requirements (larger gaps permitted) and suitable for different cases where a regular brazing driven by capillarity is not feasible.

[Geof]

Here we are presenting Braze-welding, a similar but different process, more forgiving in joint requirements (larger gaps permitted) and suitable for different cases where a regular brazing driven by capillarity is not feasible.

And also very, very close to the melting point of brass which is why I said low temperature brazing is the technique to use. In the product described joint gap is not an issue and when using foil capillarity is not an issue either.

[motomitch1]

I would like to make a small (about 1/4") permanent connection between steel and brass pieces.

the connection will require considerable strength (for frequent use) and able to withstand high temperatures (not sure but guessing around 500+ degrees, the higher the better).

I was thinking along the lines of some sort of weld or bonding material, rather than a mechanical connection like a bolt.

Any suggestions or ideas?

thanks so much in advance!

Single assembly brazing or short-run production, the manual torch, with wire or rod fed by hand, remains the most widely used method. Preforms and pastes are used frequently in production brazing. Evaluate your needs and select the form that provides the best results and most efficient use of material.

[DisgruntledUser]

thanks for the responses folks!

I searched for some brazing products.. quite a few options out there.

It seems like a high temp braze would be most suited to my application. Also a brazing paste seems like it might be a simple option. I guess the best thing to do would be start with a small kit that includes braze, flux and a couple brushes to apply the flux. I found a kit like that on ebay. Then I could play with it a little and see how the stuff works.

The only problem I might run into is if the brazed connection gets too hot it might fall apart.

What about some sort of epoxy or metallic welding putty, like jb weld? Just curious.

I'm sure there is a simple solution out there, probably brazing will do the trick. Guess I'll have to play around with it to find out. Maybe I'll be stuck using steel for now instead of brass heh.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! I'll check back and post any updates on progess I accomplish.