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  1. #81
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    Default Re: Motor drive ratios and speed

    On your commercial level, do you also use soft limits and are they setup inside your mechanical limit switches?
    Yes and no, but it's not quite so simple.

    Machines like ours use controls that are tailored specifically to the machine.
    If there's no g-code loaded, and I jog towards the home position, the machine will automatically slow down and stop at the home position. But it doesn't trigger a "softlimit", and there is no error. If I jog away from the home position, I can jog into the limit switches, so there is no softlimit.
    When you load g-code, the control checks the extents of travel, and the code will not run if it will send the machine into a limit switch. There are lots of obscure parameters that control all of this.


    Also, I'm trying to understand why UCCNC can't be set up to home to a switch and then backup till it clears?
    That's exactly how homing works in UCCNC. But, no, he's looking for something a bit different.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  2. #82
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    Default Re: Motor drive ratios and speed

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Jumper10 View Post
    Gerry,

    I'm using relay 1 so I have a wire from SafetyOVR to NO1, and from CM to 0V.
    And I
    have the Output Trigger mapped to LED 25, and set to Port 1, Pin 1.

    I Initially tried mapping it to LED 27 but it behaved exactly like you described. Using LED 25 works pretty well except that it clears the E-stop condition very quickly. Watching the diagnostics page when a limit is hit or the Reset software button is pressed, the E-stop LED illuminates for ~ 1/2 second then clears. I tried looking for a more suitable LED to use but found none. I was thinking about a HotKey that would latch Relay1 but couldnt quite figure it out. I still get the interlocking feature of the OSSD with this method and it's easy to recover from Reset. But it sounds like a macroloop - custom LED is probably the better solution. However, I dont know how to write a MAcroLoop. Concerning HotKeys, if I made a custom LED and assigned a HotKey to trigger it, and then assigned an output trigger to that custom LED to close Relay 1, would that work?


    I still don't know exactly what you are doing? Are you trying to recover from limit switches, or E Stop buttons, or both?

    To have a Hotkey do something, you need to write a macro to do it, and have the hotkey call the macro.

    But if you have a macro activate the relay, how do you de-activate it, and what determines when you de-activate it?

    It seems like you're making things more difficult, by trying to make them simpler, if that makes sense.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
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    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  3. #83
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    Default Re: Motor drive ratios and speed

    I'm just trying to activate the relay that functions as the OSSD override switch. I'm using LED 25, E stop LED, right now as the output trigger. When any E stop occurs and the OSSD faults out, the E STOP input to UCCNC is triggered, the machine stops. The OSSD is latched. The OSSD override switch (Relay 1 in my case) has to be closed to unlatch the OSSD. As soon as UCCNC sees the E stop, LED 25 illuminates and closes the OSSD override switch. If all inputs to the OSSD are normal ( servos ok, limits ok, E stop switch ok) then the E Stop signal to UCCNC is cleared and Relay 1 returns to normal. This happens really fast, about 1/2 a second. You still have to hit the RESET button to clear the reset but that's the only action you have to take. Maybe jog off a limit switch or release the E Stop button.

    I was just looking for another way to trigger Relay 1. Another action I could take to slow down the whole process. Make it less automatic. I was thinking a Hotkey might work. But I don't really have a good understanding of how they work. Thought I'd see what you thought about it Gerry.

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    Default Re: Motor drive ratios and speed

    The problem that I think you'll have is that you won't be able to jog off of the limit with it setup like this.
    As I said, as soon as you enable it, the limit will trip the OSSD again before you can jog off?

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  5. #85
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    Default Re: Motor drive ratios and speed

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    The problem that I think you'll have is that you won't be able to jog off of the limit with it setup like this.
    As I said, as soon as you enable it, the limit will trip the OSSD again before you can jog off?
    No, the limit override software switch works like normal. I haven't deliberately tested every failure mode possible but I was using it all day and recovering from a Reset or Estop was no problem. Hitting a limit switch just stops the axis and doesn't trigger an E stop. Hit the limit override soft button and back off the sensor.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: Motor drive ratios and speed

    I thought I would comment on a few things that I experienced with UCCNC, that I found notable. Of course, my comments should be considered from that of a novice.

    The install went well once I figured out how to apply my license to the software. Powered up the UC300 / UB1 and UCCNC recogized the hardware. Once the motor connections were made correctly to the UB1 they moved smoothly and are faster responding to keyboard press (which is how I jog Mach3 most of the time, except when using handheld). I have made very few changes to UCCNC's configuration and it is operating quite "as it should" with my experience. I'm sure I'll be tweaking at least a little and probably a lot more, but it all went well, thanks to you guys, once I got the Clearpath connections right. I don't have limit switches yet but I have some on the way. I'm considering installing homing switches for 2 reasons: I have that 2nd Y spindle and I'm thinking it might be a good thing to have each of them home to their own switch. The limits will be at both ends of all axis'. I will do my heart good to cut another run of 3000- 1/8" mdf parts like last week. They were fun to cut and ran on my other machine at 300 ipm which seemed fast. I just ran the same g-code without the spindles turning and it was like music. I was moving it at 750 ipm but at this point, don't know if it will be possible under a load. Jumper, the lights on the Clearpaths were twittering nicely to entire time as you suggested they do when they are happy.
    I have to ask you guys, have I always had my Mach3 "look ahead' wrong or something? I hit a feedhold and UCCNC stopped in it tracks. I think it came default set with a 200 line look ahead. I always had to feedhold Mach in anticipation of it actually happening, some seconds later. If I needed it to stop now, I had to make a quick decision, hit a stop and from what I understand, a Mach3 stop is pretty much the same as an e-stop and is not the way to gracefully stop any machine. Is 200 lines enough?

    Gerry, The 2017 screenset installed easy and it was easy to make my way around. Nice job! I'll comment again when I have more time under my belt.

    Thanks again, lets keep the thread going, but the hard part seems done. I DO have a noticible thump when the Y runs over a rack joint in the positive direction, that is right about center in the gantry. The 2 butted racks are slightly misaligned and the noise is apparent at about 300 ipm travel speed and up.

    While I wait for switches I'm cleaning, sanding and painting (with Rust Oleum Hammered black, it sure is easy to make the surface look good) while the machine is located when it is. Once its complete and ready for work, I'll be moving it away for the door and closer to the overhead vac duct.

    At your service, ( I mean it. Just let me know what I could do to reciprocate, the help was critcical).
    Need a manual printed and bound in color? Just email it to me and tell me where to send.

    Ken



  7. #87
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    Default Re: Motor drive ratios and speed

    I will do my heart good to cut another run of 3000- 1/8" mdf parts like last week. They were fun to cut and ran on my other machine at 300 ipm which seemed fast. I just ran the same g-code without the spindles turning and it was like music. I was moving it at 750 ipm but at this point, don't know if it will be possible under a load.
    There shouldn't be much load cutting 1/8" MDF, so I don't see why not. However, If you are using a small bit, like 1/4", you may not be able to spin it fast enough for that speed.

    I have to ask you guys, have I always had my Mach3 "look ahead' wrong or something? I hit a feedhold and UCCNC stopped in it tracks. I think it came default set with a 200 line look ahead. I always had to feedhold Mach in anticipation of it actually happening, some seconds later. If I needed it to stop now, I had to make a quick decision, hit a stop and from what I understand, a Mach3 stop is pretty much the same as an e-stop and is not the way to gracefully stop any machine. Is 200 lines enough?
    I don't really think that lookahead and feedhold are related. Part of what you are seeing is that UCCNC is just better than Mach3. With Mach3, feedhold response can vary, depending on which version you are using, and which motion controller. There are other Mach3 settings that can have an affect as well.

    Lookahead lines really depends on the type of work you are doing. For 2D type work, 200 is fine. For very high speed 3D work, you may want it higher. You're CV settings can also have an affect here.

    One nice thing about UCCNC, is that the stop button decelerates to a stop, so you don't lose position. Where in Mach3, you needed to feedhold, then stop, in UCCNC, you can just hit Stop.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Motor drive ratios and speed

    Ken -

    Glad to hear your up and running. If you plug into the servos with your computer while they are running you can monitor just about everything and that includes how much power they are using. I use a 6ft USB cable when I do this.



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    Default Re: Motor drive ratios and speed

    There shouldn't be much load cutting 1/8" MDF, so I don't see why not. However, If you are using a small bit, like 1/4", you may not be able to spin it fast enough for that speed.
    We were actually using an 1/8" bit with a neutral profile (neither upcut or down). One reason was the fact that these were printed by our customer and they left only about 1/2" between parts and we wanted to leave some integrity in the waste skeleton. The spindle was pretty much maxed out at 27,000 rpm. The Vortex bit that we used had a pretty good chipload and we were able to pull it off with no ripples on the edge finish. That became our critieria for spindle speed and feed rate. If we went too fast for a clean edge, we either slowed the feed or raised the spindle speed. We were able to cut about 5,000 feet of travel before the bit deteriorated. Through the process we would lower the bit a few thousanths when we thought the cut wasn't as clean, and cut with a different portion of the edge.
    You would have run the bigger bit? What kind / style / size?



  10. #90
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    Default Re: Motor drive ratios and speed

    I would never use a 1/8" bit unless I had to, as you can generally cut faster with a 1/4" bit. We only have an 18,000 rpm spindle, and I cut up to around 500ipm with a 2 flute downcut from Vortex. (#1330)
    But if you have to worry about the finish, including a finished surface, than that can make a big difference. When cutting MDF, I'm almost never worried about the finish. Just want to get it cut as fast as possible. Anything thicker than 1/4", then I'd use a 1/2" bit if I could. But only becasue we are almost always cutting 3/4" to 1-1/4" material, and always have 1/2" tools in the machine.
    At slower speeds (Up to 500-600ipm) 3/8" bits work well, and are a lot cheaper than 1/2" bits.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  11. #91
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    Default Re: Motor drive ratios and speed

    Interesting. So with a downcut, wouldn't you have a lot of dust packing on top of the spoilboard that has to be cleaned out before laying the next sheet?
    The neutral cut and healthy vacuum lets us tear off the skelaton, flop on a new sheet and go. Things stay surprisingly clean. We will try a 1/4" next time and thanks, but I have not been happy with downcuts for the reason mentioned and the fact that these are digitallly printed sheets and the edge suffers with a down or upcut.
    So you're still using Vortex? I tried their stuff because of a really old recommendation that you posted. They ran as good, and in this case, better than Onsrud tools.

    Did you see my comment as to the cut distance that we got off one tool? Any comment or comparison to your experience (not that you'd use an 1/8" tool)?



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    Default Re: Motor drive ratios and speed

    Interesting. So with a downcut, wouldn't you have a lot of dust packing on top of the spoilboard that has to be cleaned out before laying the next sheet?
    Yes, but I don't normally do that type of work, so I'd use what I have, which is a downcut.
    Also, though, our machine has an unloader, which pushes the sheet off of the table, and vacuums the table at the same time. So the spoilboard is clean for the next sheet.
    If the straight flutes work better, than stick with them.

    For my main 1/2" downcut and compression bits, I use bits from Active Tool, with a harder grade of carbide. Similar to Vortex XP, but cheaper. Active does our sharpening, and picks up once a week.
    I use Vortex for my 1/4" downcuts, as I get them a lot cheaper. For other tooling, I use both.

    Yes, that seems like pretty good tool life. I've never tracked tool life by footage. I just watch how many sheets I'm cutting. With small tools, I really don't even pay attention.

    One thing with downcuts, is that if finish is not important, you can keep using them until they are REALLY dull.

    I'll sometimes get a months use from my 1/2" downcuts. They mostly just cut 3/8" deep dadoes for cabinet backs, but I also use them for rough cutting sheets with plastic laminate, leaving about .02" for the compression bit. Plastic laminate is VERY abrasive, and this greatly extends the life of the compression bit.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  13. #93
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    Default Re: Motor drive ratios and speed

    Gerry-

    You were right and my current method of resetting the OSSD is not going to work. I dont know why but today, starting up for the first time it exhibited the oscillating behavior like you thought it would. I thought I had corrected it by using a different LED to trigger the output. No dice. Not sure what changed since yesterday but clearly I need to think it through a little more.

    Ken, you can please disregard any advice I gave you about re-setting the OSSD. It needs more work.



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    Default Re: Motor drive ratios and speed

    Well today I installed 2 limit switches successfully and when I thought I was done for the day. I noticed that the light one of the prox switch wasn't on when I thought it should be, so I went back to the UB1 and it was dead. I read in the manual that there a few protections built into it and I saw a note about a fuse. I found it near the power terminals and checked it for continuity. The fuse is blown. Don't know how I did it, but I was still moving wires around. I contacted Weerasak and he has me on the mend, I think. We are still comunicating and I'll apply his recommendations tomorrow, but I'm impressed with the support.



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Motor drive ratios and speed

Motor drive ratios and speed