Motor drive ratios and speed

[kennected]

Thanks all.

NIC 77- Yes, it has 2 spindles, both with 5 hp Perskes. Considering the fact that I will be trying UCCNC software and the UC300ETH / UB1 hardware, I'm going to have my hands full trying to figure out how to use both. What a great way to have 2 different tools mounted and run without a tool change. And running 2 spindles on the same tool path sure cuts production runs in half, BUT, getting my head wrapped around how to integrate V-Carve with 2 spindles gives me a headache.

[NIC 77]

No, they are completely different from steppers. Different shaft sizes, different mounting holes, and different body at the shaft end.
The Clearpath Nema 34's are the same as steppers, and can easily be swapped out.

You are correct.

I just had another look at the DMM catalogue.

Their smaller "Nema 34" size is in fact the size of a Nema 34.

Their larger "Nema 34" 750W size isn't. The bolt hole circle is 100mm instead of 98.4mm, and the pilot circle is 80mm, which is a bit larger than a Nema 34's. The shaft size is 14mm, but I have seen nema 34s with 12.7mm shafts, and also 13mm shafts, so not sure there is a standard there. I'm a bit annoyed that they list it as "Nema 34".

It wouldn't be a big deal to make an adapter plate and drill the hole in the pulley a bit bigger for the larger shaft. I don't know. But you are correct.

Ken,

What kind of top speed and acceleration are you trying to get with this upgrade? What would you be happy with?

[Al_The_Man]

Y

Their larger "Nema 34" 750W size isn't. The bolt hole circle is 100mm instead of 98.4mm, and the pilot circle is 80mm, which is a bit larger than a Nema 34's. The shaft size is 14mm, but I have seen nema 34s with 12.7mm shafts, and also 13mm shafts, so not sure there is a standard there. I'm a bit annoyed that they list it as "Nema 34".

Exactly, it is either NEMA 34 or not if a difference size!
Slowing 69.16.243.61&c=1&t=42979.5648969907
Al.

[NIC 77]

Exactly, it is either NEMA 34 or not if a difference size!
Slowing 69.16.243.61&c=1&t=42979.5648969907
Al.

I was looking at that before.......funny, they list the shaft diameter of a Nema 34 as 3/8". All the Nema 34's I have been looking at are 12.7 or 13 mm.

I wonder if that's the older shaft diameter before they got more powerful?

Ken, what is the shaft diameter of your motors?

[ger21]

It doesn't look like there are standards for shaft sizes.
http://www.nema.org/Standards/SecureDocuments/ICS16.pdf

Tbh, I didn't even realize the DMM advertised a "Nema 34" motor. I though they were all metric sizes, like every other AC servo. 40mm, 60mm, 80mm, 130mm.

If you go to their online store, they don't even offer the one that's actually Nema 34 size.

[NIC 77]

Tbh, I didn't even realize the DMM advertised a "Nema 34" motor. I though they were all metric sizes, like every other AC servo. 40mm, 60mm, 80mm, 130mm.

If you go to their online store, they don't even offer the one that's actually Nema 34 size.

I was looking at their DHT models here:

DMM | AC Servo Motor | AC SERVO DRIVE | AC SERVO MOTOR | ROTARY ENCODER

Which indicate a Nema 34 frame size.

There is a separate DST 750W servo also, different model.

But if you look at the catalog

http://www.dmm-tech.com/Files/ACSMTR-G1-0815A15B.pdf

On page 6, you can see that the 750W DHT (86M) is a little off from a Nema 34 standard size as far as the bolt holes and pilot circle.

[kennected]

Well, again thanks for all the replies and views.
I placed an order for 4- CPM SDSK-3421S-RLN Clearpaths. I will be using UCCNC with a UC300ETH-UB1 piggyback. We'll see how it goes. Still having concerns about setting up the X axis using 2 motors and how to best configure and auto-tune.

With this arrangement, it looks like there is a need to deliver 75 volts directly and all the way through the chain to each motor. Are the $85 cables that Technic sells what I need? Is there a technical advantage to using these as opposed to conventional 2 lead wire?

[Jim Dawson]

Well, again thanks for all the replies and views.
I placed an order for 4- CPM SDSK-3421S-RLN Clearpaths. I will be using UCCNC with a UC300ETH-UB1 piggyback. We'll see how it goes. Still having concerns about setting up the X axis using 2 motors and how to best configure and auto-tune.

With this arrangement, it looks like there is a need to deliver 75 volts directly and all the way through the chain to each motor. Are the $85 cables that Technic sells what I need? Is there a technical advantage to using these as opposed to conventional 2 lead wire?

The convenient plug on the end of the cable is enough for me to buy the cable from ClearPath. I hate making up cables.

[1Jumper10]

I'm in the process right now of setting up a UC300ETH - UB1 with ClearPaths. I hope you're not technically challenged . It's a very good combination. Just focused more toward industry professionals than DIY hobbyists like me. If you get to the point where you're not sure how to connect something I can let you know what I did and maybe that will help. Lots of good support available here and from cncroom.

The cables from teknic are convenient and that is nice sometimes. I made my own and saved some money. The power cables are easy. I used 16 guage wire but 18 would have been easier. I also ran power from each motor back to the power supply. You could probably get away with Daisy chaining yours though. That would save you 1 or 2 cables. If you make your own you'll need the right molex connectors. Same considerations apply for the data cables. Again I made my own but if I money was no object, I would order these pre-made.

How big is your machine going to be?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[kennected]

I across an old post of yours 1Jumper10, oldie but a goodie! I'll be reading it over and over. Thanks for your post and comment here. I'm an owner, not an engineer so... I'm using the UB1 to retrofit an old machine and I'm getting a little more comfortable making connections. I'm completing 4 solder bridges to put my 4 limit switches on 104, 105, 106, and 107 and Estop on 103 tying them all together. The limit switches are proximity type and yet I can't tell you if they are PNP or NPN. What I do know after today is that when I put 24 vdc into the first two wires, put a metal chunk at the tip of the switch, it returns 24vdc back, take the chunk away and the voltage drops out. Not sure what to do with the 3rd wire so that it triggers a fault requiring reset, but your old post will likely point me.
I WAS able to tune my Y axis with the usb Clearpath connection (which is a sweet plus to these motors) to provide me with a starting profile to marry my slaved X axis motors. And the motors sounded really smooth and quiet. I can't wait to see everything move and make me feel good about the expense.
And then there's the HLFB connections. They will be another day or two in the classroom.

Jumper, any chance you'd have a tighter close-up shot of your UB1 connections? Wouldn't that be a great way for CNC Room to show connections? There's so much I don't know and having toasted a few new Gecko drives, I hate to "guess"

Thanks everyone.
Ken

[1Jumper10]

Ken, I can get you a close up shot of my UB1 but it probably wouldnt help much. My circuits/connections are drawn out on a copy of the UB1 I printed out from the manual. Look in this thread starting at about post #56 ->
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/fineli...m-posts-3.html

I got some help with my connections directly from Weerasak at CNCroom (the guy who designed and made the UB1) and there are some helpful diagrams in that thread. If that doesnt answer your questions shoot me a PM and I'll see if I can help.

Chris

BTW, my UB1 board is working great.

[kennected]

Thanks Jumper.
I spent another day trying to get my Y Clearpath to move, but no soap. The motors do not energize or "hold" though the indicator lights on the motors themselves do light up indicating the 75vdc being present.

I think the charge pump circuit may be at least part of the problem. On Weerasak's recommendation, I wired the enable connections to a 24v and Y301. The step and dir connections were pretty straight forward

The attached pics may add some insight.
I AM getting a reset, but not getting any movement. When I use my keyboard Y+ I get no movement, when I press Y- on the keyboard, no movement either, but I do get a red diagnostic led as shown. It goes out when I try the Y+ again.

I have no limits wired up yet and think I need to order new ones that are NPN. I think the originals are PNP and Weerasak says UCCNC likes NPN.

The top red and black are an emergency stop (seems to react correctly)

The blue cable pack is the data cable out to my Y. Step and directions are on the right. Red and green from the same and are HLFB connections to X104, Orange and Blue are enables connected to 24v and Y301 but I'm not getting a voltage read at those terminals.
Is there a solder bridge issue maybe? I read that the charge pump circuit may need to be solder bridged but I thought better of that without comment here. I DID bridge x104, 105, 106 and 107 to establish a safety circuit. I also did try to check the box for "Charge Pump always on", does that override an issue if there was one?

[kennected]

2 more things: the 300eth is lit up with 1 green showing good network connection and 2 blue led's on the opposite side of the female rj-45.
When using arrow keys to try a move the DRO's Are moving.

[ger21]

"Charge Pump Always On" means the charge pump is working whether UCCNC is in Reset, or not. Meaning the Charge Pump is always on when UCCNC is running.
When not checked, the Charge pump will go out when in Reset.

I don't believe that the charge pump signal has any affect on the UB1 operation. It just activates the CP output. (unless you've soldered the bridge on the back, to have the charge pump diable the outputs?)

If the motors are not locked up, I would think there's an enable issue?

That red LED on the diagnostic page is just the direction pin output. It will always be on for one direction, and off for the other. You should be seeing the YD+ LED on the UB1 light up when the one on the screen is on.

[1Jumper10]

From the pic I think I see your problem. You went with the differential drive connection. The CP's wont work with that method when using the UB1. I'm not at home at the moment but going from memory, for all your axis servo connections (X,Y, Z &A) your Step + wire and your Dir + wire all connect to VCC which provides the positive leg of the signal. The UB1 switches the negative side of the circuit for step and direction signals. Your Y axis Dir "-" wire would connect to "YD-" terminal. Your Y step "-" wire would connect to "YS-".

UCCNC is probably trying to move the Y axis with the keyboard commands it just cant with the differential connection.

For your sensors, look carefully at the sensor connection examples in the UB1 manual. The brown wire I believe (verify) is positive. In this case, since the UB1 is 24v, its positive 24vdc. One of the other is negative and this would be "0V" on the UB1. The last wire is your input. Standard 3 wire sensors colors are blue, brown and black. You should be able to tell from the connection diagram how to hook it up.

[kennected]

Thanks Gerry,

I have not soldered the CP bridge on the back of the board. I only linked 4 more in the safety circuit.
Thanks about the LED. Your description is exactly what its doing. It didn't make sense or seem logical to me, and yes, the led IS lighting on the board at the same time.

[kennected]

Wow, Jumper ! I hadn't expected that answer about the VCC.
So, I should be tying all 4 motors' Step+ and Dir+ wires to VCC (should I be using a common jumpered terminal block to make a 1 wire connection to the a VCC?. That provides the "data" power and UB1 manages the Dir- and Step- transmission?
As for the sensor attemps, I tried to put 24vdc to one wire (can't remember the colors) and 0 to the other wire. The sensor lit up when it was placed close to a metal mass and the middle (3rd) wire went high to 24vdc. Does that make sense? Can these switches work?

[1Jumper10]

Yeah the CP's need a differential voltage greater than 5vdc to work like you have them wired. The UB1 only has 3 volts potential difference.

I suppose a common jumpered terminal block would be the right way to do it. I just tied the 4 ends together and soldered on a pig tail which I connected to one of the VCC terminals (don't judge me ). The current draw is next to nothing but I did use both VCC terminals. 1 for the Step positive and the other for the direction positive.

Post a pic of your sensor. I think the sensor has to supply a low signal to the UB1...

[kennected]

I think you're right about the low signal back to the UB1. I think that would suggest that mine are PNP type prox switches. The UB1 likes NPN where the signal wire drops low upon activation. I think I'll be ordering some switches tomorrow. Hey speaking of that, did you see my question about your hard stop homing on your Z axis? Do you like that setup? Do the Clearpaths tolerate the bump?

All very appreciated, gents,
Ken

[1Jumper10]

I did not see it. Is it in this thread?
When you set up the hard stop homing, you adjust the torque output it uses, and how fast it does it. Typically you'd want to set speed pretty slow, and torque just low enough to get it moving without faulting out on over current. The idea is to take it nice and easy. I have since disabled hard stop homing on the Z axis. I will eventually set it up on the Y axis of my router and its currently set up on the Y axis of my friends router and it works fine. If you have homing sensors on an axis then there's no point using the hard stop homing feature except for a dual driven gantry. Unless your interested in exceptional accuracy. The position encoder in the CP's is probably more precise than homing to a sensor. But in practice, I've found its more convenient to home to a sensor with UCCNC. But on a dual driven gantry, hard stop homing squares up your gantry and synchronizes the servo's so they don't fight each other over a ten-thousandth of an inch difference.