Panel Router. Best way to move the router up and down

[bgolash]

Hi
I am building a panel router for my woodshop. I asked questions in the General Woodworking forum. Not much response.
I was hoping someone from this forum might visit my thread.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/genera...ml#post2017680





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[coherent]

Would the designs used for a wall mount panel saw work? Maybe you could have the router and saw mounts interchangeable.

[bgolash]

Hi


This is going to be a single purpose machine. I have a 8.5-foot sliding table saw for sizing plywood. This is just for the machining of dadoes in the plywood ends of cabinets.


Barry

[KH0UJ]

Ok sir can I ask a question? what`s the main purpose of your router project? is it for plain cutting? engraving? or outline cutting plywood?

[bgolash]

Ok sir can I ask a question? what`s the main purpose of your router project? is it for plain cutting? engraving? or outline cutting plywood?

Just to machine dadoes into the surface of the plywood.

[KH0UJ]

I think you can do it with a wheel approach sir since you needed it to follow on the plywood contour or imperfections or wrapped material or whatever, and I was thinking you dont really need the Z axis to be moving, you just want it to have a some like suspension to adjust itself on the imperfections of the wood, a valve spring on motorcycle engine I think would work, a manual Z height adjust again I think would be sufficient enough, ball bearings on the Z holder in order for it not to be stuck on prolong use for like let`s say a month of operation

[coherent]

I guess i don't understand why a large router table with an adjustable fence and adjustable underneath router mount doesn't fit your needs instead of something with linear rails etc. Is there a reason you need to move the router vs the work? Seems less productive in speed to produce multiple pieces, accuracy and simple adjustability.

[bgolash]

Hi Coherent

I assume you're voicing your concerns to me and not Khouj. The reason is this is a design that is nothing new. This was used before the CNC became affordable. As a cabinetmaker, I aways do a few tall cabinets.
These can be 30 x 92 inches in size. I never owned a router table but am confident handling 3/4 of a sheet of plywood on such a tool would be difficult at best. I do have two industrial shapers which are router tables
on steroids

Regards Barry

[Jim Dawson]

I guess your other thread has been deleted. To answer your question about linear slides, it looks like the one in your drawing is about 4.5 inch wide. The linear actuator is just a guided air cylinder and the force is calculated the same. A common cylinder for that one would be a 1 inch, so at 100 PSI would give you about 78 lbs of force. You are still going to need something that will touch the plywood to keep the depth of cut consistent from the surface. A slide as Woodcraft did or a wheel as suggested above.

[bgolash]

I guess your other thread has been deleted. To answer your question about linear slides, it looks like the one in your drawing is about 4.5 inch wide. The linear actuator is just a guided air cylinder and the force is calculated the same. A common cylinder for that one would be a 1 inch, so at 100 PSI would give you about 78 lbs of force. You are still going to need something that will touch the plywood to keep the depth of cut consistent from the surface. A slide as Woodcraft did or a wheel as suggested above.

Hi Jim
It seems so. I believe this is a better location for the design issues. I checked with the manufactuer of the linear slide. It seems the max pressure is 43 pounds. That`s more then enough to lift the router and the other assembly up and down.
I was going to mount a compression spring in the linear slide. So when it moved down to the surface the spring could compensate for surface thickness variations. The base of the router will touch the surface of the plywood. Sometimes this design work sounds
good until its implemented then you go how do I miss the obvious.

Regards Barry

[Jim Dawson]

Hi Jim.....
Sometimes this design work sounds good until its implemented then you go how do I miss the obvious.

Regards Barry

How true that is.

Your liner slide is a bit different than the one I have on the bench. The one I have has a visible air cylinder. But yours should work fine for the application. Looking forward to the build pictures.

[bgolash]

Hi All


For the hell of it, I did a search for floating head varying thickness.I wasn`t expecting to find much....Surprise! Found this at damencnc.com Its a floating head for engraving
I`m thinking this is the design I was looking for to successfully reference off a varying stock thickness. To a degree, I believe my linear slide is following the same concept
as the engraver head.
Different source interesting video:


https://damencnc.com/en/tools/kress/...ling-motor/719

[bgolash]

Hi All
I am reconsidering my current design for the floating head router assembly. After looking at the floating heads for engraving I decided to
follow that design. I was going to use a single air linear slide with a compression spring which gives the design the floating
aspect to allow for variations in the thickness of the plywood. I need enough pressure on the air cylinder to move the router assembly up and down to the work surface.
I`m wondering now if the air will compress the compression spring so much that there will be no movement to allow tracing along the surface. It would
rub too much and maybe be difficult to push the router up and down to make the dado.

The new design is to use two linear slides one that is controlled by air to raise and lower the router assembly to the work surface.
The second linear slide will be the one that provides the floating effect. This would be the slide that gets the compression spring
to provide the floating feature. This slide would not be controlled by air as a result, the compression spring will not be affected by
air pressure. I`m wondering if you think my logic is sound.

Barry

[Jim Dawson]

I think you are overthinking this one. Just use the linear slide as an air spring, that way you have controllable and constant pressure on the router. A compression spring gets harder to push as it is compressed, so the pressure varies. Using an air spring, the pressure remains constant over the entire travel.

All that's required for an air spring is that the side of the cylinder that you want to use as a spring be plumbed into a small air tank sized so that the volume of the tank is much greater than the volume of the cylinder. This sounds complicated, but it's really simple. Pick up a portable air tank from Harbor Freight, or your favorite auto parts store, and you have a large volume. Supply regulated air to the tank, connect the tank to the cylinder, set the pressure to give you the desired downforce. To retract the cylinder, just supply air at a higher pressure to the opposing side of the cylinder and it will overcome the pressure on the down side, thus retracting the tool. You don't have to relieve the pressure on the down side to do this.

This is harder to describe than it is to implement.

[bgolash]

I think you are overthinking this one. Just use the linear slide as an air spring, that way you have controllable and constant pressure on the router. A compression spring gets harder to push as it is compressed, so the pressure varies. Using an air spring, the pressure remains constant over the entire travel.

All that's required for an air spring is that the side of the cylinder that you want to use as a spring be plumbed into a small air tank sized so that the volume of the tank is much greater than the volume of the cylinder. This sounds complicated, but it's really simple. Pick up a portable air tank from Harbor Freight, or your favorite auto parts store, and you have a large volume. Supply regulated air to the tank, connect the tank to the cylinder, set the pressure to give you the desired downforce. To retract the cylinder, just supply air at a higher pressure to the opposing side of the cylinder and it will overcome the pressure on the down side, thus retracting the tool. You don't have to relieve the pressure on the down side to do this.

This is harder to describe than it is to implement.

Hi Jim
Let`s see if I`m understanding this correctly. So use one air slide. The air tank would be attached to the down stroke port.This creates the float. And the amount of force can be controlled by varying the air pressure. The retract port is run through higher pressure
to lift the weight of the assembly which is comprised of the router and its mounting bracket. I like my idea better, its more complicated, costs more money, adds more moving parts that might affect the accuracy of the cut, takes longer to build and still might not work.

[Jim Dawson]

Hi Jim
Let`s see if I`m understanding this correctly. So use one air slide. The air tank would be attached to the down stroke port.This creates the float. And the amount of force can be controlled by varying the air pressure. The retract port is run through higher pressure to lift the weight of the assembly which is comprised of the router and its mounting bracket.

Yup

I like my idea better, its more complicated, costs more money, adds more moving parts that might affect the accuracy of the cut, takes longer to build and still might not work.

I like the way you think.

[bgolash]

Hi Jim

Just a thought. Instead of a remote tank. Can the same result be implemented by using a separate air regulator and a dedicated air line to the port?
My guess is NO. I will try your idea. Just waiting for an order of various air fittings. I`ve used pneumatics before but am not well versed in the theory
of pneumatics.

Thanks and Regards, Barry

[Jim Dawson]

Hi Jim

Just a thought. Instead of a remote tank. Can the same result be implemented by using a separate air regulator and a dedicated air line to the port?
My guess is NO. I will try your idea. Just waiting for an order of various air fittings. I`ve used pneumatics before but am not well versed in the theory
of pneumatics.

Thanks and Regards, Barry

Unfortunately no, you have to have the air tank. Just a regulator won't react fast enough to control the pressure close enough by itself. With the air tank, you have a large enough volume that the system barely knows there was a change made in the total volume when the cylinder moves, and thus the pressure remains pretty much constant.

Keep us posets on how it works out.

[bgolash]

Unfortunately no, you have to have the air tank. Just a regulator won't react fast enough to control the pressure close enough by itself. With the air tank, you have a large enough volume that the system barely knows there was a change made in the total volume when the cylinder moves, and thus the pressure remains pretty much constant.

Keep us posets on how it works out.

.
Ok I understand. Thanks so much for your assistance.


Best Wishes, Barry

[Jim Dawson]

.
Ok I understand. Thanks so much for your assistance.


Best Wishes, Barry

It's my pleasure