Interesting Integrex Application

[Lathejockeu81]

Hey all.

Integrex 300 III-ST w/640MT-Pro Controller

Programmed in Esprit with EIA

I'm currently working on a program to machine a part held between two expanding mandrels for the majority of the milling detail. This has created a few issues...

1) We don't have C-Axis syncronization. Mazak service has no idea why, and thinks it may not have been available on our machine... but we need to lock the C axis on both spindles to prevent harmonic vibration of the part when milling.

2) The tool change Z location puts the centerline of the milling spindle above the sheetmetal of the sub spindle, so a .01 tool orientation would mean a crash if contained in the tool change line.

3) Most of the program is run with the W axis forward against the part. Unfortunately, the machine does not allow restarts or MDI commands when the W axis is out of home position, so when there is a program issue that needs corrected, I have to start back at the point where the subspindle first comes up to the part

I have come up with solutions for problems 1 and 2, but I would like to get your input on them to see if there is a better solution out there.

Solution 1) To syncronize the two spindles, every time there is a C axis index I unchuck the sub spindle. I retract the sub spindle .1, index and clamp both spindles, and feed the subspindle back against the part. I chuck the part, and continue machining. It's a little sluggish, but it definately works.

Solution 2) I set the floating reference point to X home, Y home and Z as far negative as I could with the longest tool safely clear of the sheet metal. I select each tool with a .00 orientation, and manually index the B axis from the floating reference point. Finally I output a T line with the correct orientation so Mr. Mazak uses the correct toolset numbers. The process is reversed at a tool cancel.

And if anyone has any parameters for problem 3 that would be awesome. Mazak Applications told us to try RB15 bits 0 and 1, and RB30 Bit 0. We also tried RB4 Bit 0 for good measure.... none of them worked.

I'll post some pics when I get a cycle through(I called it a night after about 13 hours... )

Thank you!

[crazythunder]

Get an E series machine all problems solved. I make a cap to go over a live center body. Then the live center body can into a cavity make the cap with a light press fit into your part.

Load the tools by hand to eliminate your toolchange problem. Can be easily done using the right codes to index the mill spindle then a M00 switch to Manual mode and done.

Last problem would be a parameter. Go into the electric book and look for the loop that shows the sensor for the W axis being at the home position the Ladder position is listed there. Now you need to go into the ladder logic and see if it tells you the parameter that controls that place. This way might yield you better results to find the correct parameter than the guessing of the people at Mazak.

[Lathejockeu81]

While we would like to move to a newer, true horizontal Multitask machine... I'm not so sure we're going to stick with Mazak.... the quality of our current Integrex leaves much to be desired.

Loading tools by hand would take far more time than our current method, and would prevent the operator from running other machines effectively. Remeber this is a production facility... any M0 is impractical unless ABSOLUTELY neccessary.

I will try your suggestion to find that parameter when I'm done with this damn part... I'll let you know how it goes...

And, as promised, here are a couple pics.... I wish I could get action shots, but coolant spray and windows make that difficult....

Finished Part on Sub Spindle


Facemilling with Sub Spindle as a Center

[psychomill]

Much of your problems I'd have to see in person because it could be a number of things so I'm not much help here.... but others might be. However, this:

We don't have C-Axis syncronization. Mazak service has no idea why, and thinks it may not have been available on our machine

.... seems crazy. You have a Mark III machine. Synchronized spindles was available. If you had a Mark I or II, it may be possibl to not have it. But I believe it is standard on Mark III and up. May want to check software version to see if its the most updated one. It's possible that depending on the build time frame, you could have an "oddball". But Mazak Service .... or rather Applications should know this. Don't ask a tech.... talk to Applications....

[crazythunder]

Well sorry to say looking at that part you have the wrong machine for the job. I would have never picked a Mark series machine to do a job of that nature. This series of machine in my opinion is good for true lathe parts with milling where you want a bar feeding it and a parts catcher putting them on a conveyor. The E-series machine is the machine more suited to this and if you have a load/unload with auto door then you could run that part for many many days if the robot could reach the parts and had a place to stack them and not even need an operator. Yeah I hear the complaint now cost to much money. Guess what time is money and you add up all the lost time fighting with this and that verse what a truly automated system would cost and I think you would be surprised how much they pay for themselves very quick.

Machine not doing what you want you call Mazak and ask them for their load dock number, and address and who they want to be billed to come pick up their machine, I promise someone who does have an answer will be there very quick. I would get my lawyer on the phone, my congressman whoever it took if some service person gave me that lame excuse!!!! I have had the rigging company unloading their equipment when service guys showed up and were doing something some idiot on the phone said could no be done. Mazak, Mori, HAAS, Okuma, all of them are a business and if they can get by with telling you a load of bull, and your company is going to say ok no problem guess what good for them. You light a fire under someone and make their life as uncomfortable as your's is and I promise you will get results. I had the president of Hyundai of America machine tools apologizing to me and the company I worked for about 15 years ago, so do not say it does not work been their done that and got a new machine in the process.

Good luck with bailing on the Mazak. Now you get to look forward to a new learning curve on a different machine putting your company even further behind. How much is that going to cost the company verse having the right machine to begin with?? I would be making someone at Mazak accountable for the machine they sold you that I know your company was wise enough to get a time study for the parts you are doing on it. Since they got the time study and all parties agreed this was the best machine for the job and it is not doing that job, my lawyer would be getting us a lot of retribution.

Now if this is some Vice president's idea of trying to make something you got work, and none ever took the time or thought process to make sure it was the right piece of equipment to do the job, which is seems like it not since the tool changer will not clear then the fault lies in your companies decision making process not what has been described as a short coming of Mazak or its equipment.

No I do not work for Mazak, and yes I have had my share of problem with their machines, but I always got the answer I needed and got it done to my liking. So I think I would be asking to talk to someone boss and be getting some answer pretty darn quick before I came on a world wide forum and started slamming a company that could sue me for false and/or inaccurate statements.

Also the E series machine got up along the X axis to change tools and never has to go back along the Z axis to change tools. Mori's NT machine will probably be the machine they tell you to get if you go to them and guess what it is the same machine set-up as an E series Mazak.

[Lathejockeu81]

Wow...

First of all, when we purchased our machine, we never showed them this part because we did not originally intend to run it on the Integrex... so the wrong machine was our own mistake. I decided I wanted to run this part on our Integrex because I new I could improve part quality and decrease cycle time. Regardless of the machine's limitations, I can run the part in one operation now and total machining time is down 30%(total time to produce is down 60%+). So even with the "wrong" machine for the job we've still seen a dramatic improvement.

Mazak Applications are the ones that said they didn't think C axis sync was available on that machine. Turns out they were wrong and our salesman was able to get us a quote very quickly on the update... Our salesman also claims that C axis sync is not standard on any multitask machine from any manufacturer(I believe the quote he sent us on an E series said it was, though?)

As for the toolchange issue with the sub spindle forward, this is a collision point that is mentioned in the operating manual for our Mark III Integrex... so no false accusations here

Finally, believing that you are stuck with one brand of machine tool or another because you fear a learning curve is simply unnaceptable. Learning new machines, writing new posts and embracing change is something the modern machinist must do to help his company remain profitable thereby keeping himself employed. We're talking Multitask machines here.... the whole concept of these machines is a dramatic shift from convention!

[stucaruk]

C axis sync has been available for a while, but it is an extra cost option that you have to pay for. We bought it on our Integrex 200-IVS. It worked O/K in turning mode, but in mill mode the gains were WAY off and it took and extra service call to get things tuned properly.