How to install 4th Axis Rotary table?

[MACKAY9999]

Hello all,

Mazak V515/40 with M-Plus controller. Trying to figure out what is needed to fit a 4th Axis, rotary / index table and operate it through the controller, using Mazatrol, not EIA.

Option 1 : I have a Kitagawa RS160 Mac DEX lying in the shop, never been used, nothing with it other than the cable (no MacMini controller). What do I need to work this? servo drive / servo controller? will it work with Mazak? Or should I throw it?

Option 2 : Consider a Centroid RT-250 rotary table, and try to fit that.

I am totally confused, have too many questions to post...!
Does anyone know what I need to be looking at first?
What hardware do I need? Mitsubishi / Meldas stuff?
Any experience out there with Centroid rotary tables (worth considering)?

Help!!!

[NC Cams]

Adapting 4th axis from one machine to another can be a snap or a nightmare, especially if you don't know what sort of motor and/or control strategy is involved - both ways.

if the table is an indexer, you need a box to interface between it and your CNC to take an index trigger signal and turn it into a useable "code" that will properly trigger the table.

If the table is a true servo, the question then needs to be answered as to whether it is AC or DC? Tach F/B or not? If A/C, what is the proper commutation sequence? ANd so on and so forth. Definitely not a project for sissies.

In short, it is not going in any way to be plug and play unless you figure out what you have and what you need. Some study of the machine control as well as the indexer/rotary axis will be needed to figure out what you have and what needs to be done.

After having looked into "adapting" rotary tables to my mill already, I found that insufficient knowledge about the electrics of the parts involved can lead to a difficult and/or expensive science project/machine tool adaptation lesson.

Caveat emptor

[MACKAY9999]

Hello NC Cams,

Thanks for your reply. Yeah, it's been a lot of fun so far!

I think I should abandon the Kitagawa, too many unknowns, unless anyone has a [MacMini A] controller for sale?

Other option is to buy a new rotary table, plus hardware to work with the machine from M-Plus direct, any tips on how I can check the V515 M-Plus for suitability, before parting with cash?

Thanks.

[Al_The_Man]

There are three basic ways to integrate a 4axis etc.
One is complete integration allowing the control to see the 4th axis and control by °command, even interpolated axis moves with the axis.
This requires the highest cost as in the case of the Mazak should be done by Mazak or possibly a Mitsubishi integrator.
The second method is to use a 4th axis that has its own programmable controller and is communicated to by the control by a simple M code command and the controller will issue a finish signal when done.
This is positional only, no interpolation, if needed.
This also requires some integration unless spare M codes are available on the machine.
The third is no communication to the programmable 4th axis, the CNC control will simply have M0 codes inserted at the appropriate point , when the machine stops the screen message will indicate for him to push the index controller button to position the 4th axis.
He will then push the Machine cycle start and continue.
The first two methodes needs no intervention, the third does.
Many Mazak users and others use the last option, SMW is one maker of stand alone axis indexers.
Al.

[MACKAY9999]

I've managed to un-earth 2 solutions available to me, a MAC mini A controller, which will work my MAC dex table without any modifications. Or a new servo motor/cable/MAC mini i package (need to change motor and cable on the table).

Either way, now I need to figure out how to connect this to M-Plus controller, does anyone know how. RS232 or some other interface?

Once connected how to send M codes to the MAC mini controller to control the table? How to program the M-Plus to send M codes?

[Al_The_Man]

M code control is done through the Machine control ladder, If this is a Mitsubishi control, you (or someone familier with Mits PLC) may be able to write them, if there is no spares or existing ones you can use.
M codes use the input and outputs on the PLC module.
Again, if Mitsubishi control, you can obtain PLC program info off the MEAU Manuls web site.
Al.

[MACKAY9999]

Sorry for sounding a bit clueless (it's only because I am).

Am I right in assuming there might be some connection block somewhere in the innars of the machine control where output from the PLC for an M-code command on/off can be connected via a pair of wires to pass a signal to a channel on the table controller and trigger an event?

When you say spare M codes do you mean an M code in the machine for a feature which is not installed on the machine (like for instance chip-vac on, chip vac off) [sorry don't know the M code off hand for this]?

On the same lines, is there a connection in the machine to receive M-codes (or signal) for instance to restart cycle once table has moved?

Am I getting warmer, or still completely Arctic?

Thanks

[Al_The_Man]

Some machines have M codes written that either the option is not used or is not physically installed, these can be used if you know what they are.
The M code is written when the machine logic code is written by the MTB, in this case Mazak, the M codes are passed from the CNC side to the machine logic side and most M codes require what is know as a Fin(ish) signal in order for the CNC to know it has completed, ulitmately it ends up as one or more of the ouput modules outputs, solenoid etc and operates the function is was designed for, the process then tells the control via an input (switch etc) that it has completed and the part progrogram continues.
This logic, which BTW you can usually pull it up on a screen if you know how, and see the logic in action in what is known as a Ladder diagram.
Al.

[MACKAY9999]

Thanks Al_The_Man. Sounds like I might be getting somewhere.

The operation manual gives full list of M-codes including M43/M44/M45 "Index table indexing". How do I check these M-codes are currently physically switched on in my machine?

If these are not active, is there a parameter string to change to activate them? (I suspect I have answered the question myself - check the parameters) but does anyone know where I should look on an M-Plus?

Mazaktried to rob me once with one of our QTN-250s, to turn on the chuck open/close M code (a simple parameter string change), they tried to charge a fortune, they could have told even a numb skull like me how to do it over the phone in two minutes!

If I can get the M43-M45 codes on, does anyone know where to locate the connections I should be looking for in the workings of the PLC, (where to get my table controller channels connected to)?

Thanks,

[Al_The_Man]

I am not sure what (Mitsubishi?) control is in the M-Plus.
Sometimes what they do is write the function in the and then it has to be turned on with an OP option bit in the parameters.
The chuck open/close is an example of this on the T2/M2.
The outputs for the M codes are usually shown in the hard copy of the ladder or I/O designations sheets.
Al.

[MDLang]

Call Tecnara tools http://www.tecnaratools.com/support/index.html

Tell them about the indexer you have and the machine and they will help you out with the hardware requirements and the parameters for the indexer.

Mazak is often a dead horse but if your control is so equipped you can call Mazak service in L.A. and with some persistence they can tell you what parameters to change to have the control recognize the indexer.

I have recently installed a Kitagawa 4th on a Fusion 640 machine and it is very doable if your able to follow instructions and be thorough, but there is no way on God's green earth you'll complete the job from scratch with assistance from the forum. I intend no offense to anyone but there are far to many variables involved.

Accessing the indexers servo parameters alone will be impossible without knowing the sequence involved and the code (For example 1311 on a fusion 640). There are also allot of machine parameter settings that are 100% dependent on the hardware involved.

You can do it but you will need the help of the manufactures of the equipment involved to make it go a smooth as possible.

Trust me.

Mike

[MACKAY9999]

Thank you to everyone who helped (especially Al & Mike).

I managed to sort this out with the help of three OMRON $5 relays which were "missing" from the relay board in the mill.

With addition of 3 cheap connectors now able to use m-codes M43, M44 and M45. Will work from any Mazatrol program using the M-Code unit direct. Should also work in EIA, not tried yet. (maybe someone can confirm).

M45 to "start" indexing plus two spare M-codes (if required) to work other features on the the index table via the table controller (change index program, return to zero etc.).

IMPORTANT: You also need to return one pair of wires from the index table controller (connect them to the correct terminals in V515 TU board) to "finish" the m-code after indexing. This will allow your program to continue after the table indexes.

Configuration : MILL>>>>TABLE CONTROLLER>>>>INDEXER

The terminal connection numbers, relay mounting positions and PCB connectors are all shown in the electrical handbook for the machine. Yup, O.K., I should have read the handbook first!

You don't need to mess with parameters, ladders or anything else.

Hope this helps others with the same question.

Thanks...