PC <-> Brother TC-S2A - cable ok, no connection

[mahi]

Hi,

I have a Brother TC-S2A machine which I'd like to hook up to a computer because the memory is almost full and because I'd like to have a backup of all my programs...

The TC-S2A features an RS232 interface to communicate with a computer. So I got myself a 25pins -> 9pins serial modem cable (not a null modem!). I have software that should be able to communicate with the Brother according to the documentation.

I set the communication settings in the software to match those of the Brother (baudrate, stop bit, parity,...) according to the default settings of the Brother manual.

Whenever I try to receive from or send to the computer I (immediatly) get the error "(2537) DR SIGNAL OFF". I'm not really sure what this means, but the manual says you only get this when the "DR SIGNAL CHECK" is on. Disabling this on the machine in the User Parameters and in the software on the computer resolves this message, but there's no sign of any activity. After 60 seconds (the set time-out) I get the error "(2543) TIMEOVER (COM)" which clearly is a time-out. Thus no connection was made.

But why?

The cable seems ok. I have tested it with a multimeter and a schematic of a serial modem cable and it's perfect. I wanted to get a null modem cable too, but I found in other messages concerning getting data from or to the Brother null modem cables don't work.

Anyone who can give me a hand here? What can be wrong?

[Al_The_Man]

First, I would confirm the status of the port on the Brother, for that you should get hold of a RS232 break-out box, they can be a had fairly cheap.
Otherwise at least measure the voltage on pins 2 & 3 on both ports, and find out if both transmit pins are conflicting.
If you have a pin-for-pin cable then that could be the problem.
Al.

[Ben Colby]

I myself have a Brother and have never solved the communication problem.
Erasing programs when your memory is full is very distressing. Are you attempting
to save Conversational or G-Code programs? What software are you using?
I attempted to use BroComm without results and several others as well.
What I have found as you mentioned, Null modems do not work at all with the
Brother. I have managed to download programs but not upload so I have no idea as
to whether my downloads are any good. My machine is Conversationally controlled.
I have contacted Refresh Your Memory (do a internet search) and they have software
and hardware to correct the problem, but I have not wanted to part with the money.
Their tech guy says these are some of the hardest and trickiest machines to get to
communicate with a PC. I'm sorry I don't have more to offer, but your cable wiring is vital since null modems don't work.

[mahi]

Originally Posted by Al_The_Man First, I would confirm the status of the port on the Brother, for that you should get hold of a RS232 break-out box, they can be a had fairly cheap.

I'll get myself such a box (or build one myself - it's fairly simple). I hope it's a wiring problem, because repairs on the Brother machines tend to be very expensive in my experience

Originally Posted by Ben Colby I myself have a Brother and have never solved the communication problem. Erasing programs when your memory is full is very distressing. Are you attempting to save Conversational or G-Code programs? What software are you using? [..] Their tech guy says these are some of the hardest and trickiest machines to get to communicate with a PC. I'm sorry I don't have more to offer, but your cable wiring is vital since null modems don't work.

I'm using TCEditor. It was recommended by my local Brother supplier. As I understand it, it's 3rd party software but it's supposed to work with the machines. I too use Conversational programs. It's interesting to see you could download but not upload. I can't do either one... Always gives the damn error message.

Could you maybe tell me the pin layout of the cable you've used? Is it a regular RS232 modem cable (see schematic)?

If I can't get out I might contact Refresh Your Memory, but I'm afraid that will be an expensive route.

[Ben Colby]

I've used the same cable you are using and it's the only one that has brought programs
into the PC while using Hardware Handshaking, but like I said it won't send them back to Brother. How high of a baud rate can you set at the control? I have BroComm which was written for Brother machines, but it's only baud setting is 19,600. My
machine doesn't go up that high, but if yours does I'll gladly send the software to
you.
I have a cable layout for hardware handshaking that another Brother user sent me
for a 9 pin connector on the computer and a 25 pin at the control: connect wires

2 2
3 3
4 6
5 7
6 8
7 5
8 4
1-4 8-20

I haven't made this cable yet, but he says it has worked for him. I'm with you,
I just don't want to spend any money on something that should be so simple,and
for some reason isn't. Honestly, I've been so busy in the shop this summer, I
haven't played around with this in a while. I feel your frustration, I've spent more
time on this than I would have ever thought possible. Let me know if you have any
success or are interested in the BroComm software. If I find a solution I'll pass it on.
Good Luck
Ben

[Ben Colby]

Can you give me a list of the default settings from the Brother manual?
I'm curious if they match my settings.
Thanks
Ben

[mahi]

Originally Posted by Ben Colby I've used the same cable you are using and it's the only one that has brought programs into the PC while using Hardware Handshaking, but like I said it won't send them back to Brother.

But downloading would already be a start. At this moment I can't get anything from or to the machine.

How high of a baud rate can you set at the control?

My machine goes from 300 baud up to 19200 baud.

I have BroComm which was written for Brother machines, but it's only baud setting is 19,600. My machine doesn't go up that high, but if yours does I'll gladly send the software to you.

I assume you meant 19200 (19600 isn't an existing baudrate as far as I know). My machine supports this setting, so I'm very interested in your BroComm software. I'm not sure how big the program is, but if it's below 5MB you can mail it to me at mahi@pandora.be (my ISP doesn't allow larger attachments). If it's larger, I can set up an FTP server. Thanks in advance!

The TCeditor software I'm using supports all baud rates (but doesn't do squat on any setting). Sadly it requires a hardware dongle on the parallel port. I can send the software to you but you won't be able to use it without the dongle.

I have a cable layout for hardware handshaking that another Brother user sent me for a 9 pin connector on the computer and a 25 pin at the control

I'm gonna try that next week. Btw, on the last line of the pin layout you wrote 1-4 8-20... A bridge over 1 and 4, and a bridge over 8 and 20 on the other connector. But should there also be a connection between 1-4 and 8-20?

Can you give me a list of the default settings from the Brother manual? I'm curious if they match my settings.

User Parameter 3 (Communication):

SELECT PORT
0: PORT A
1: PORT B
default 0

CONNECTED TO
0: PTP/PTR
1: COMPUTER
default 0 (I set this to 1 obviously)

COMP COMMUNICATION PROTOCOL (MASTER)
0: TYPE1
1: TYPE2
default 0

BAUD RATE
0: 300
1: 600
2: 1200
3: 2400
4: 4800
5: 9600
6: 19200
default 5

PARITY
0: NONE
1: ODD
2: EVEN
default 0

STOP BIT
0: 1 BIT
1: 1.5 BIT
2: 2BIT
default 0

CHARACTER LENGTH
0: 7 BIT
1: 8BIT
default 0

REPONSE START TIME
0-999 seconds
default 60

COMMUNICATION
0: LINE
1: CODE1
2: CODE2
default 0

DC1CODE
0-255
default 17

DC2CODE
0-255
default 18

DC3CODE
0-255
default 147

DC4CODE
0-255
default 20

DR SIGNAL CHECK
0: NO
1: YES
default 1

COMMUNICATION END DC3 CODE
0: NO
1: YES
default 0

OUTPUT TAPE FEED
0: NO
1: YES
default 1

RESET (SLAVE)
0: NO
1: YES
default 1

RESET RECOVERY TIME
0-99 seconds
default 1

DATA OVER WRITE (SLAVE)
0: NO
1: YES
default 0

REMOTE OPERATION
0: INVALID
1: VALID
default 0

REMOTE PROTOCOL CHECKSUM
0: NO
1: YES
default 0

[Ben Colby]

Yes you are correct 19,200 baud. I'll look for the program during the weekend and
if it is under 5mb's I'll send it. I'm sure it is, my ISP had the same email limit until
very recently. Try setting the Brother on PTP/PTR, and give that a try.
I'm fairly sure there should be a cable connection between 1-4 and 8-20.

[mahi]

I received your mail with the software. Thanks!

I was planning to test the software later today with the cable I have, but there's too much work for this machine to do some testing in between. But I'll try the software and let you know the outcome. If it doesn't work I'll also test the alternative pin layout you gave.

I'll keep you updated!

[mahi]

Ok, finally found some time to test again with the machine... My findings:

With my cable your software didn't do anything. Obviously my cable is incorrect. By checking the help of your program I noticed it decribed a cable pin layout, slightly different from what I had (but still not the same as the one you gave in this thread).

  PC                 TC
 RD(2) -------- SD(2)
 SD(3) -------- RD(3)
 ER(4) -------- DR(6)
 SG(5) -------- SG(7)
 DR(6) -------- ER(20)
 RS(7) -------- CS(5)
 CS(8) -------- RS(4)

I rebuilt the cable and tried again with your program. I sent a program from the Brother to the computer and as by a wonder for once the Brother didn't give the DR SIGNAL OFF message. Good... On the computer it was obvious there was data received, but the software crashed on it with error 13: Type mismatch. I have absolutely no idea what might be causing this. But the most important thing was that there actually was some sort of communication between machine and computer.

Thinking the issue with my cable might now be solved, I switched back to my TCEditor software. I sent a program from the machine to the computer... And tadaah: no error message, but a lovely "Completed" messagebox.

Then I tried to send a program from the computer to the Brother. The traditional DR SIGNAL OFF error message appeared on the screen: transfer failed. But... Checking the machines memory I noticed the program was actually submitted to the machine. I chose a program number that was still open and after transferring - even though the machine states it failed - the program was in the machine's memory.

At first sight I couldn't spot any differences between the program on the machine, but the error message made me suspicious. So I resubmitted the program from the machine to the computer enabling the Check option (verifies machine data with computer data). Somewhat expected it said there were differences (but the stupid software won't say where).

I also rebuilt the cable according to your alternative cable pin layout, but that gave exactly the same result.

I tried to get your program working, but it always gives me the earlier mentioned error message.

So to summarize: With the cable pin layout I gave earlier in this message I got data transmission from machine to computer working. From computer to machine seems to working more or less, but it always gives this error message and the sent data is most likely corrupt.

In terms of usability I'm just as far as you... I can send the memory of the machine to the computer, but I can't get the data back into the machine. But the fact there is corrupt data sent back is promising. If I could just resolve the DR SIGNAL OFF issue...

[Ben Colby]

Have you had any success with your Brother since we last corresponded?

[mahi]

I'm not a single step further... I even let the company I bought the machine from (specialized in Brother) have a look at it, but they couldn't fix it either. The new Brothers appear to have an USB connection which doesn't have all these annoying issues. But that of course doesn't help us any further.

It's partially useful for me. I can safely transfer from machine to computer. That never fails. The other way always gives an error, but I must say that even on close inspection I can't spot a difference between the program on the computer and the one on the machine. When I retransmit the program on the machine to the computer and then compare both versions the software says the files are different, but I can't find any difference. Might be irrelevant information that differs?

So in theory you could say it works for me in both directions, but I'm never sure about the pc -> machine transfer.