FR-SE spindle drive trouble

[nlh]

Cutmore,

Very interesting thread. Out of curiousity, where did you get the DK434 hybrid? Straight from Mazak?

Thanks

[steph06]

hello
i'm happy for you
one question
where you find DK434 ??
have you an adress for me because i don't find hybrid here !!
thanks a lot
regards
stephane

[quickturngreg]

Hey Cutmore,

How did you come about the DK434 hybrid??

Also, a question for you and Stepane. When you are checking the resistance, to get a reading of 2.17 (or 2.16), are you doing this with the board out of the drive? Or in the drive with power on? Please clarify for us numbskulls...

I got the manual from Mits showing the test points, but their test procedure uses an oscilloscope, with the board in the drive, with machine power on, and with the drive in a forward or reverse spindle command state.

So, the 2.17 resistance check is a "homemade" procedure, which is fantastic as far as I'm concerned. Heck of a lot easier than using the o-scope with drive under power.

Greg

[steph06]

Also, a question for you and Stepane. When you are checking the resistance, to get a reading of 2.17 (or 2.16), are you doing this with the board out of the drive? Or in the drive with power on? Please clarify for us numbskulls...

the board is out of the drive no power needed

I got the manual from Mits showing the test points, but their test procedure uses an oscilloscope, with the board in the drive, with machine power on, and with the drive in a forward or reverse spindle command state.
So, the 2.17 resistance check is a "homemade" procedure, which is fantastic as far as I'm concerned. Heck of a lot easier than using the o-scope with drive under power.

yes the test point are for oscilloscope (checking base drivers waveforms)
i haven't oscillo but some idea :rainfro:

regards
stephane

[robind]

I have downloaded the the file that shows the checks. Is there a drawing or picture that shows the location of the pins? I am having a problem with my fr-se-2-22k drive. I am not a super tech but I cann't afford what meau wants to rebuild my drive. Is there anyone that I can turn to?

robind

[gridley51]

Robind,have you downloaded all the manuals for the drive?I`m sure there is more than one.What is the Meau number of the manual you have?
Have just checked.There are four manuals for the FR-SE,the one you want is BNP A7237-35A,it has a drawing showing test points.
Mark.

[robind]

Mark, I have since downloaded the file you suggested. Thanks for the help. I have not had to do this deep of repairs in a nearly 10 years. Sending the drive to meau is cost prohibited with the economy as it is.
robind

[gridley51]

Robind,thanks for letting us know you got the info.So many people never come back and say either way.Nowadays I very rarely say on a forum that I have a manual for whatever as I get hundreds of requests for copies and very few people even acknowledge they got it.
If you think Mits over there are expensive don`t come to Britain.I`ve just had two boards for an M2 repaired by Mits in the States,they were repaired as needed and loaded with up to date software for $200 a board,fixed price regardless of what they needed and a years guarantee.In Gt Britain,Mits don`t know anything about cnc and everything goes to Germany.If it`s from a Mazak,Mits Germany won`t speak to you insisting you go to Mazak.Mazak wanted $2000 each for the boards plus their tech had to fit them at additional cost or there was no guarantee.Price here to get an FR-SE drive repaired is about $5000.
Email me if I can help with anything else.
Mark.

[cut more]

Hello Robind, Mark,

What is the trouble you are having with your drive?

I have had to adjust the converter enable voltage a couple of times on one of my drives. The symptom for that was, the spindle while running would sometimes slow down for no reason and then after a toolchange the spindle just didn't start. Right in the middle of a job of course!

Cutmore

[chippy1]

Where can I get the DK434 hybrid's?

Regards,

Chippy

[AFI Systems]

This was a real interesting thread - I just got one of these drives in for repair from a CNC rebuilder, and I'm hunting for those pesky DK434 / BKO-NC2055 hybrids myself... I just emailed a couple of places with RFQ's.

If anyone is interested I can repair these and all other makes & models of spindle drives, AC & DC servo drives, stepper drives, CNC controllers, servo motors, PLC's, monitors either CRT or LCD / touchscreen, power supplies and the list goes on and on....

We're based in Charlotte, NC, USA (though I'm from the UK originally) but we do repairs worldwide. And we're a lot cheaper than MEAU or Fanuc or any other OEM for that matter.

Well, thanks guys for all the helpful info above, and good luck to anyone attempting this repair! If anyone wants repair info, call 704 889-2404 or email afi-systems@hotmail.com

Andy Fleming

[gridley51]

Hi Andy.
It is an interesting thread and now you have had something from us maybe you could let us know when you track down the parts.
I have a few of these drives and don`t particularly like them.One of them failed while the machine was in storage.The fault was the power supply that sits on the top of the drive.
Had this quite a few times and I`m wondering if that`s what blows them.That power supply has mutiple outputs of +8 -8 or 18volts (can`t remember) and I`m wondering as this voltage is used to derive the motor voltage that the failure of some outputs will overload the other firing controls and burn them out.
The power supply can be fixed usually by replacing all the caps.BTW I find this approach cures 90% of all board failures I get.
Where in the UK did you come from Andy,and where did you work over here?
Mark.

[AFI Systems]

Hi Mark,

Wasn't really expecting a reply - cheers, I'll definitely post back when I find the DK434 hybrids (I sent out 3 RFQ's yesterday). I'm originally from Blackburn, Lancashire where it never stops raining. I worked for Northern Industrial Electronics (www.n-i-e.co.uk) for 8 years before deciding to make my escape from Blackburn. NIE is a great company and is capable of repairing these drives for any UK readers out there. Anyway I googled myself a job and ended up here in Charlotte, North Carolina. I have been here 5 years now. I worked as service manager for 2 industrial electronics repair companies here before starting my own after being fired for taking a week off after my 2 yr old son was in hospital after fracturing his skull at daycare, then my wife was hospitalized the same week with gastritis from the stress. They're a bit ruthless here, NC is a fire-at-will state, you can fire anybody at any time without having to give them a reason! I found out the hard way! I knew it was a bad omen when the president called me at hospital after my son was born and told me I needed to get back to work, and again when my little un had pneumonia and the wife sinusitis and couldnt go near him - I was told to "go to church and find an old lady to look after my family when they are sick".

OK, enough *****ing about US employment laws - on the technical side, I don't think the power supply caps failing would normally cause the power modules and drive stages to blow, usually you'd just get power transistor desaturation which means they don't switch the full power to the motor, then in turn you'd get an error on the CNC control as it sees the motor is not at the correct velocity (depending on the controller type - you may see the spindle limping along or running when you give it a push to get it going). More often when the power transistors blow it's either from ageing (the P-type and N-type semiconductor molecules slowly bleed into each other over the years, finally causing a short circuit) or from the tool hitting the piece or an endstop, which in turn can cause the drive stages to blow on the board with the hybrids.

If you have one of these drives it's probably a good idea to swap out the caps (less the big ones that dont normally fail) before it dies, as sometimes the electrolyte can leak out and short out traces on the board, causing a big burnt hole that takes a lot longer to repair (if repairable) than replacing caps! Also be careful when replacing caps as the no.1 cause of drive warranties coming back into repair centers that I worked at was broken traces caused when the caps were replaced. If you're not careful the bottom trace can become disconnected from the top trace during desoldering and this can be a very hard problem to trace especially if you don't have a comparison board.

Well, that's enough trade secrets! It's saturday night I've got a beer sitting in front of me so I'm off!

Andy Fleming

AFI Systems
589 N. Polk St.
Pineville, NC 28134
704 989-5977
afi-systems@hotmail.com
www.afi-systems.com

[mluqman]

Hello everyone, FYI maybe this link could be useful http://cncfanuc.blogspot.com

[normanready]

HI IM NORMAN
I AM INTERESTED IN FINDING DK-434 HYBRID FOR MY
FREQROL THANKS

[AFI Systems]

How many do you need Norman ? I bought a whole gate driver board off ebay to take them off for the repair I just did, but I have some of the hybrids left over.

Andy Fleming

www.afi-systems.com

[quickturngreg]

Hey guys,

After getting my FR-SE drive fixed, now I have a dead FR-SF drive. I have determined it is the hybrid drivers: DK 456. (The FR-SE drives use the DK434, but the newer FR-SF's use the DK 456.)

Does anyone know where I can get the DK 456's? (Of course, Mitsubishi will not sell them to me.)

Is there another Mitsubishi spindle or servo drive that uses the DK 456's?

Any help is much appreciated, and I will post results of my repair.

Greg

[cabbage]

Thanks I have found this forum the best help for my DL-SCZ mits repair just to know what to look for !

[hotrob1]

My turn now I guess. Does anyone have access to the DK434 (BKO-NC2055) hybrids for the Mitsubuishi FR-Se-2-22K?

Thanks in advance.

[mld]

We repair Mitsubishi CNC spindle drives. Contact us direct at contactMLD@gmail.com