X3 training... is Streamingteacher worth it? or eapprentice?

[SRT Mike]

I am trying to learn X3... I signed up for the day pass on eApprentice and I was very underwhelmed... luckily it was a free day pass, or else I'd have been bummed that I had paid for it. The videos were decent, but it seemed to be a very basic introduction to X3 and left a LOT out. There are so many options, features and selections you can make when selecting toolpaths and the videos seemed to be "basic introduction" more than an actual in-depth tutorial to that feature.

Is streaming teacher any better? It's a lot more money - about 10x the price for the basic membership. I'd be peeved if I signed up and found it wasn't worth the $$...

So can anyone compare eApprentice to streaming teacher? Is the latter a more "serious" learning tool?

Thanks!

[Phyrexii]

I don't know much about the details of mastercam, nor of their tutorials. However, we are looking into purchasing it, and I know from dealing with different software vendors that you can usually negotiate with them (especially in this economy). If you tell them what you just posted, then you could probably work out a trial period at a reduced rate, or even free. Our MC reseller was going to let us try MC for a couple hundred $$ for 90 days because we told them we weren't sure if we wanted MC. He was even going to throw in a free day of training.

[Custom Billet]

Well, I bought it. It was $400 for 90 days. It had some pretty good info, but I don't feel I got my moneys worth. I only used it maybe 10 times or so. It does help a little. For $400, I should have got a set of DVD's or something along those lines. Being a Mcam 9 user, I was very upset when they made me switch to X. Now that I have been using X, I wouldn't even consider going back or using anything else. I think it is the best software out there, but it takes some time to learn. Good luck!!

[morten259]

when get training from mc they only can give you basic training I have work with mc for 8 years and it is just getting better. it was a big jump from 9 to X but a god jump .in mcx there is so many options and everytime you have a new task you have a new way to solve it 90% of mcx /toolpath is learning by doing.
MCX is good

[SRT Mike]

Thanks for the feedback... I'm thinking I will just save my money then.

$240 for 90 days is steep considering you walk away with nothing in-hand. If you could download the videos it may be better worth it, or if you could pay a smaller fee per-video I guess.

I read some comments on the two sites on here, but when I looked at eapprentice, I just thought it was a very good but very very basic overview of some things you can do in Mastercam. As a training tool, it fell waaaay short.

There are several companies selling books, and of course there is training offered by the reseller. Can anyone recommend which one works best? I'm really not looking to spend $$$ on custom training through the reseller... I'd prefer something cheaper that is off-the-shelf and especially something I can keep after the training is over (like books or DVD's or something).

[peterdewstow]

I've done Streaming teacher but not eApprentice. I foung learn as you go better than streaming teacher. The help files and the reference guide are pretty good.

[accellodyne]

I thought about trying Streaming Teacher X3 once but haven't done so yet. I contacted them and they have a free trial option. I think it's a two day trial which would probably be enough to evaluate the training. I was waiting to have two whole free days to spend on it. Send them an email and they should respond, they did for me.

Monarch

[Toonz]

Contact Mike Mattera for his videos, probably the best thing you could do, and you will always have them available if you need them for info. (kinda surprised he hasn't responded here already.....where are ya Mike?)

[Derek Goodwin]

I signed up for the day pass on eApprentice and I was very underwhelmed... luckily it was a free day pass, or else I'd have been bummed that I had paid for it. The videos were decent, but it seemed to be a very basic introduction to X3 and left a LOT out. There are so many options, features and selections you can make when selecting toolpaths and the videos seemed to be "basic introduction" more than an actual in-depth tutorial to that feature.

Mike, this is precisely why we offer a free trial of 100% of our training product, you get to check it and then decide whether or not to buy it. eapprentice is like a lot of other things in life. You get out of it, what you put into it.
The part that you mention in your other thread is a simple part. I am going to take a guess (based on your comments) that you went directly to the advanced section of the course (volume 2) and probably didn't spend much time learning the basics first (volume 1) If you were not able to learn Mastercam during the 24 hour trial period, you are not alone, volume one is designed to be a 96 hour course, it's not 96 hours of watching video, it's 96 hours of working through the exercises and doing the work. That is how you learn Mastercam.
Streaming Teacher is indeed 10X the price and does indeed have more material. Their business model is to document the entire Mastercam process and keep it entirely up to date with the current version. That takes a big infrastructure and thus costs more, and is worth every penny (if you use it) Tips for Manufacturing is a different product altogether. I will leave it to Mike to address his business model, he also offers top notch training and helps people with all kinds of problems right here on this forum for free, as do a number of other people too numerous to mention. The fact is that all of the products mentioned have different teaching methods and different price points and all three offer sufficient free samples that you can make an educated decision on what's right for you.

[SRT Mike]

Originally Posted by degmc Mike, this is precisely why we offer a free trial of 100% of our training product, you get to check it and then decide whether or not to buy it. eapprentice is like a lot of other things in life. You get out of it, what you put into it. The part that you mention in your other thread is a simple part. I am going to take a guess (based on your comments) that you went directly to the advanced section of the course (volume 2) and probably didn't spend much time learning the basics first (volume 1) If you were not able to learn Mastercam during the 24 hour trial period, you are not alone, volume one is designed to be a 96 hour course, it's not 96 hours of watching video, it's 96 hours of working through the exercises and doing the work. That is how you learn Mastercam. Streaming Teacher is indeed 10X the price and does indeed have more material. Their business model is to document the entire Mastercam process and keep it entirely up to date with the current version. That takes a big infrastructure and thus costs more, and is worth every penny (if you use it) Tips for Manufacturing is a different product altogether. I will leave it to Mike to address his business model, he also offers top notch training and helps people with all kinds of problems right here on this forum for free, as do a number of other people too numerous to mention. The fact is that all of the products mentioned have different teaching methods and different price points and all three offer sufficient free samples that you can make an educated decision on what's right for you.

Thanks for your comments. But please don't think I didn't get value out of it, because I wasn't willing to put the time into it. I didn't skip to the advanced part, I did go through most of the basic stuff (I didn't do most of the drawing stuff, just because I don't use MCAM to draw parts). From my casual review, there were 2 sections, and I'd say probably > 65% of the content dealt with setup of the program, basic tasks (what are menu bars, what are ribbon bars, etc). The other 35% dealt with making toolpaths. This is no slam on the product, because a BIG part of mastercam is drawing, it's just a part I don't personally use.

On the videos, there were 2 that dealt with pocketing, both about 2-3 minutes long. The first video started out talking about customizing the menus, how to make c-plane the default, etc, it was half way through the video before it got to actually selecting geometry to do the pocket. The example was very simple - just a straight-through pocket. My part was more complex, with 3 layers of pockets. There was nothing in the pocketing videos about layers or different levels. There wasn't anything anywhere on flowline machining, or really anything on 3D machining. I think each of these toolpaths are pretty complex all on their own, and I think one could easily fill an hour or two long video showing all the different options, what they do, how they inter-relate, and also showing their application in complex parts, rather than just simple ones from the installed sample parts.

Please don't get me wrong - I am not bashing the product, I think I was accurate in my assestment, it is a great "introduction to Mastercam" type tool. It's certainly not something that one could go through, even in detail, and expect to be proficient with the software after completing it. One could certainly do a lot of 'trial and error' fiddling on their own after using the lessons as an introduction, and through that trial and error figure out the rest of the program, but then again, one can figure stuff out through trial-and-error on their own anyway.

I hope you guys continue to grow and expand the offering, and I certainly think that in the future, with an expanded offering, it's something I would definitely be interested in. I just think there needs to be a *lot* more depth. Like I said, hours and hours of content on the various different toolpaths and the settings in the software, instead of maybe 2 hours of total content on toolpaths and machining.

That's why I was asking here if the streamingteacher product was more in-depth (I hoped it was for 10x the price), but others said it wasn't... so I'm gonna stick with books and learning-by-fire I suppose

I hope you'll keep the forum updated as you grow and expand your offering, because I'm certainly interested in signing up once it's fleshed out a bit more with content.

[Derek Goodwin]

The funny thing about Mastercam is that it's pretty simple on the face of it. 2D toolpaths are mainly facing, contour, pocket and drill. Those toolpaths could probably be learned in a couple of hours, however it will take you hundreds of hours or maybe even a few years to become really proficient at Mastercam. It's not the toolpaths that are a problem it's all the other stuff. I don't spend a lot of time on each button or check box, because that's the easy part, you can figure that out with a little experimentation. I try to take it below the surface and show you things that you don't realize are there. I try not to show you things before you need them because it is confusing. This is not my first barbecue, I teach three Mastercam courses at college level.
The problem with your part, as kesparate and Tom pointed out, in the other thread is that your geometry has problems, you will need to clean that up before you can start applying toolpaths. I would recommend that you tighten up your output tolerance in solidworks and set the igs translator to output wireframe, it's in you solidworks "save as options." Better still, just open the native solidworks file in Mastercam.
I created a quick video here to show a few pocket routines on your part. I didn't show all of the geometry cleanup because I'm out of time, but delete duplicates, find overlap and various trim options were required.
And finally I do disagree with your assessment. People can learn to become proficient using Mastercam by following the eapprentice videos and getting stuck in, hundreds already have.

[cob]

hey dereck thanks for doing a video of that part you competely covered alot of things that I was looking for.
I tried doing this part but I did not know how to do any toolpaths thats becasue I did not know how to get the wireframe into this you also covered differnt kinds of pocket that I did not even know how to use. you should pop in more often .
thanks.
by the way in your web site do you do this kind off stuff where people can show some prints or some kind of part and you then do a video of how to machine the part. just like the one you just did on this part.
thanks again. that was very well and very explanatory on how to machine a bouble sided part.