Desperate times call for desperate measures

[lilricky2]

O.K go ahead and lump this in with every stupid noob question you have ever responded to. What is the ease of use factor and learning curve for Mastercam? I am thinking of buying a used version. I have used Alibre (the 30 day demo) and loved it. I didn't buy it because I bought my mill with with Bobcad V19 on it and I had just upgdraded the software to version 20,6. I like it but even with the manual and training cd's AND tech support, the learning curve seems to be a steep one for me. I have half a dozen parts on paper and I have spent weeks on the first one. Refining and alterations require alot of work (for me anyway) and usually a call to tech support. The Alibre software allowed me to scrap drawings and re-design them in a matter of hours. I'm starting to regret sticking with Bobcad. This is not a slam on Bobcad, it just might not be a good fit for the density of my grey matter. So with all that behind me, how does Mastercam compare to Alibre and/or Bobcad?
I would greatly appreciate some insight.

Rick

[cadcam]

The Learning curve is diffrent for alott.I wold say look and see if they offer it at a local collage were you can take a class for close to nothing and see how it is for you.
I know out here were I live there are alott of places to get help training and support.

So that make the transition for alott to Mastercam much easer.

[bpmufx]

Hey Rick,
Lets look at the where the problem is at the moment.
Q: Are you having trouble with modeling or Toolpath generation (In BobCAD)?

To me, as an experienced CAD guy, I found the modeling (MasterCAM) to be more difficult than generating toolpaths. But I also know that once past the curve, the modeling tools are pretty darned good. So I appreciate it. Something that kills me though is the fact that it's not Windows compliant. Therefore, the interface is it's own.

[cadcam]

9Something that kills me though is the fact that it's not Windows compliant. ) So you are saying that mastercam is not full windows? Sorry but it is full windows.

Maybe you are used to the older versions V9 and earler.
VX is alot diffrent even on the drawing side.

[lakeside]

I have used both bobcad and mastercam v9.I gave up on mastercam because I needed to add a seat and a new post for a matsuura. It was the cost to upgrade and the post that drove me to Bobcad in the first place. After using Bobcad I've found that the drawing package is easy for new employee to learn. The learn curve for tool path generation is about the same for new user. But the learning curve for the cad side seem to be less in Bobcad than Mastercam.If I need a better drawing package for the shop I'd look at Abrie(after reading many post on this site is how that choice came about)

[bpmufx]

Cadcam, Thanks for the update. I am an using an older version (V8). It is almost unbelievable that MC would change their API to be windows compliant, there is so much involved to accomplish that after they already have their own GUI. I'm not doubting you, I actually am giving MC full props for making the move. Good to hear,
I'll check it out.

Something I thought to bring to the table for someone seriously looking the two packages: Toolpath Generation. MasterCAM is so proficient and powerfull in this area, but only according to the macros that create the toolpaths. As far as I know the toolpath geometry is not editable except by changing paremeters in the macros.

However with BobCAD, the toolpath created is simply other CAD geometry, and fully editable as CAD geometry. This has come up a few times for me to very valuable to just go in and redraw an area of toolpath and move on.

I am very curious whether this can be done in MC. I defer this to you guys who are more advanced MC users. But my point here really is that the two packages really are very different in their approach, and that for a Noob to try and learn both in an effort to compare the two is a very complex proposition. God be with you if you're doing all this on payroll AND make the wrong Purchase choice.
For Rick the reason I ask where your difficulty lies, is that if your answer is CAD side, I would strongly recommend sponsored training in CAD, Solid modeling. I can tell you that the investment will be invaluable. The minor GUI variances between CAD apps is nothing compared to not fully understanding correct modeling proceedure.
Just my 2CW.

[cadcam]

Evan, good point and as you asked the MC has been compltly rewriten, if you would like I can go on line one evening with you and show it to you. I am not your dealer so I am not trying to sell it to you but show how it changed I could show you alott in 20 to 30 min.

may be the other gentalman would like to see to we can have a few.
the design has changed to.

Let me know

(Something I thought to bring to the table for someone seriously looking the two packages: Toolpath Generation. MasterCAM is so proficient and powerfull in this area, but only according to the macros that create the toolpaths. As far as I know the toolpath geometry is not editable except by changing paremeters in the macros.) actully all the changes can happen without using macros and all works with the change of the geo or a toggle.

[lilricky2]

My main problem is me. I just seem to be having trouble grasping the finer points of cad. I have been in the machine shop a long time but cnc is totally new to me. Mike has shown me quite a bit but it just seems like the paametric stuff was easier to learn. Evan, I have less trouble with toolpath than modeling. I can't seem to figure out what combination of commands will get me where I want to go. Maybe it's a time factor. I dunno. Bobcad is having training in my area but it doesn't look like I.m going to be able to go. I guess I'll just keep plugging away until some of it sticks.

Rick

[lakeside]

Rick you maybe better of buying the train vidio for $200 than the training class it less money and you can watch the cd more than once I bought them when I first started and they help out alot

[lilricky2]

You're probably right. I'm obviously not gleaning what I need from the manual.

Rick

[bpmufx]

Hey Rick,
I figured it was going to be modeling issues. Listen, something I was thinking about here is that all the solid modeler apps are vying for your buck, and in their effort to make their package look better than the rest, they're calling things by various names.
This can very confusing to say the least. Look for a coons patch in Autodesk Inventor.
You won't find it. But it's there, burried deep in the Loft feature.

There are two points here:

1- I love MasterCAM for sticking with conventional terminology. A Coons patch is a Coons Patch. A Loft is just that and nothing more.

2- More importantly, if you're not sure what either of those features are, fundamentaly, it won't matter if you're looking right it. But worse, how can you discover it without knowing what you're looking for.

Please find training to learn the fundamentals of modeling. You'll be glad you did. And I'm trying to drive the point home maybe too delicately that in the midst of the marketing hype of SolidWorks, Inventor, ProE, Alibre, Catia. et al. MasterCAM has maintained a sense of the root to all the features and their name.
IMO, if you pony up for MC training you'll be in a sweet position to learn all the apps mentioned above with ease. I really can't say the same for the others, and I have a working knowledge of them all, especially Inventor.

PS: Mike M - if he goes for it, I get a kick back right?

[bpmufx]

Cadcam-

Yeah, I'll take you up on it. Thanks for the offer. I'm curious where its at these days.
Q: I understand MC will import and gen TP off of STL files now. Is this correct? If so what are the (if any) limitations with this?

Anyway pick an evening and time. What time zone are you in? I'm L.A.