Mastercam Milling

[TURNER]

Hi all,
Does anyone have a rough idea of pricing in the uk for this software, to do 2.5d milling, and maybe a little 3d( dependent on extra cost) . 3axis only required. Sorry if im a little confused X3,X4,X5 are these just newer versions or do they all do different things?
Thanks
Keith.

[WallyL7]

I'm not sure if you have google over on that side of the pond, but a quick search for UK mastercam resulted in this:

Mastercam CAD/CAM - The World's No1 CAM system with over 140,000 seats installed!

I'd call them for pricing.



X5 is the latest release of Mastercam. The "X" series is simply their newest platform, and the X3, X4, X5 is just progressive releases.

[TheBigJW]

Originally Posted by TURNER Hi all, Does anyone have a rough idea of pricing in the uk for this software, to do 2.5d milling, and maybe a little 3d( dependent on extra cost) . 3axis only required. Sorry if im a little confused X3,X4,X5 are these just newer versions or do they all do different things? Thanks Keith.

Since the version before X was almost 10 years ago X would be Mastercam 2000. So X4 is Mastercam 2004. X5 is Mastercam 2005? Every one else uses the year as the release. Mastercam won't do this so they can get away with charging a yearly maintenance fee and only bring out five new buggy releases in 10 years.

John

[WallyL7]

Originally Posted by TheBigJW Since the version before X was almost 10 years ago X would be Mastercam 2000. So X4 is Mastercam 2004. X5 is Mastercam 2005? Every one else uses the year as the release. Mastercam won't do this so they can get away with charging a yearly maintenance fee and only bring out five new buggy releases in 10 years. John

Wow. I never gave a crap about the year matching the number put on the release.

SO, Windows 7 is just windows 2007 in your mind?

You do realize that it is the companies decision to actually name the release whatever they want to, right? Or do you guys in Canada expect the government to mandate what companies call their own products?


John, Mastercam has what they call "Maintenance Updates" for given releases instead of just giving it a new number. They act like "patches" for other products. In many ways it is like skinning a cat - there are many ways to do it, and they all work.

So John, to clarify, Mastercam X2 might have an update called X2MU1 if there is a maintenance update number one for it. Then, when a more thorough update is released it may go to X3.

If you need more clarification John, PM me. I can explain it to you.

As far as Mastercam being buggy - that is a lie. I use it every day and there ain't nothing buggy about it.

[foxsquirrel]

I have a seat of X3 and had to buy SolidCam because I got tired of the all the nonsense. For instance, jacking around importing this in format A and exporting in format B and then it would never work correctly. X3 was a pain from day one, then after purchasing Soliworks 2010 it would not import SW files directly because I did not have maintance upgrade. So it was obsolete after 2 years, not bad for a $17,000 investment..........................



Additionally, I HAD NO TRAINING AND WAS MAKING PARTS WITH SOLIDCAM SOON AFTER IT ARRIVED.

[neurosis]

Originally Posted by WallyL7 As far as Mastercam being buggy - that is a lie. I use it every day and there ain't nothing buggy about it.

As far as mastercam "not" being buggy. That is a lie. I use it daily and it has a laundry list of bugs.

Originally Posted by WallyL7 John, Mastercam has what they call "Maintenance Updates" for given releases instead of just giving it a new number. They act like "patches" for other products. In many ways it is like skinning a cat - there are many ways to do it, and they all work.

Mastercams MU does not come close to comparing to a patch in other systems. It is a maintenance update. Companies that release patches to their software release them as free bug fixes for issues that have been found. Mastercam releases them as Maintenance updates so that they can charge you for the patches to bugs and justify it by releasing the bug fixes with added functionality.

They used to release service packs but that is no longer the case. If you purchase their software and your maintenance expires while you are on one of their bug ridden initial releases you are stuck with that bug ridden P.O.S. unless you renew your maintenance. If you purchased X5 as a new release and do not continue your maintenance.. if they do not produce a MU in a years time that covers the bugs in the current version or any new bugs that are included in any added functionality in the MU's that are released while your maintenance is current, then you get stuck with those bugs.

I am not trying to bag on mastercam here I am just trying to state some facts. There are only a few things that I disagree with about mastercam and their policy concerning bug fixes are one of them. At least make patches to well knows bugs free to those who purchases your software.

They really need to do something about their testing as well. The beta testers work very hard to find bugs and I realize that, but a majority of them are people that are testing the software on their time. Too many bugs slip through the cracks.

I really need to bring the owner of our shop to the next roll out or user meeting. It would be a site.

[TURNER]

Originally Posted by WallyL7 I'm not sure if you have google over on that side of the pond, but a quick search for UK mastercam resulted in this: Mastercam CAD/CAM - The World's No1 CAM system with over 140,000 seats installed! I'd call them for pricing. X5 is the latest release of Mastercam. The "X" series is simply their newest platform, and the X3, X4, X5 is just progressive releases.

Lol, yes we have google this side of the pond. Its just ive been looking around at different softwares, and they are all so cagey about pricing a rough guide would be nice on all their sites. I also cant be ars** with reps that pester you for months just because you wanted a peek at what they have to offer. For the potential customer it could be any price £1000 or £15000 if its out of your budget there is no point even thinking about a trial. I have found out that one of our sister companies in europe is using MC but they also have a different way of working to us so maybe what works for them may not work for us. Software i believe is also a personel thing when you have to use it every day, you will either like it or not. Our sister company is talking about getting me a demo and also seeing about getting someone to come over from there to show us what they are doing. It seems to be a mixed bag on this forum ie lots say they like MC and lots say its crap. We were looking for something also that can do cad and cam 2.5d mill work. Lots of new software seems to just do cam( correct me if im wrong)
Cheers,
Keith.

[neurosis]

Turner,

What kind of work are you doing? Would you say that it is very simple or relatively complicated?

Please dont misunderstand my post. Mastercam is far from Crap. It is just very buggy and I dont agree with some of their policy regarding bug fixes.

If your parts are relatively simple and you are on a buget, there are probably better fits out there for less money.

[TURNER]

Originally Posted by neurosis Turner, What kind of work are you doing? Would you say that it is very simple or relatively complicated? Please dont misunderstand my post. Mastercam is far from Crap. It is just very buggy and I dont agree with some of their policy regarding bug fixes. If your parts are relatively simple and you are on a buget, there are probably better fits out there for less money.

Hi Neurosis,
Dont get me wrong, i wasnt pointing fingers at you, but some people on here have actually said it is crap. I make my own opinion when i try things. I have been an engineer from school, 14 years on the shop turning , drilling & milling. I wrote my own macro programs on the machines , and for the last eight year i have been in the program office ( no 3d stuff, just 2.5d mill & lathe work) .
How long have you used MC?. I wouldnt say the work we do is over complicated in general but some jobs do have a lot to do on them. Mainly general face milling work, shallow depth profile milling, lots of slots, slots on planes, profiling on planes ie the mill follows a profile in x and y starting at 1 depth and ending at another depth. Currently we are still using mega old compactII programming language( like APT). The graphics side is pants, but what you can do with parametrics is ace. The problem we have is if our pc's blow up=no more licence no more programs. Due to the extensive parameter programs an average job could be programmed in an hour. I feel we need to update, but how much time will we lose in programming?. We dont get any models supplied, everything is done from scratch from drgs.
Keith.

[neurosis]

We purchased Mastercam right about the time they started the conversion to X. In fact, when we bought it, they gave us both V9 and X and told us that X was really not 100%.

I was using Cimatron at the time so I was not in the least bit impressed with Mastercam V9. It had a horrible interface and unless you like using hot keys, it was a horrible experience to use (as compared to cimatron).

I played with X but found the software to be very crappy all the way up until about X2. Ive been using it exclusively ever since. That was about six or seven years ago I guess.

I dont want to throw a bunch of titles out there for you to look at but you should put together a list of your requirements. If you have to design or draw your own parts what will you be using for your design work? Will you be drawing only 2d wireframe or do you want to use solid modeling? Do you want to design and machine in the same system?

Some systems are very strong in cam but horrible in cad. Some the other way around.

Mastercam has fair design but horrible solid modeling. If you are just drawing everything in 2d wireframe and only need level 1 mill and lathe then it may be worth looking in to mastercam. I dont think that it would break the bank too much.

Be prepared for horrible graphics, very slow verify, and tons of bugs if you go that route. I hate to use the mastercam fan motto here, but there really is not a job that you cant get done with mastercam.

[TheBigJW]

Originally Posted by TURNER Hi Neurosis, I wouldnt say the work we do is over complicated in general but some jobs do have a lot to do on them. Mainly general face milling work, shallow depth profile milling, lots of slots, slots on planes, profiling on planes ie the mill follows a profile in x and y starting at 1 depth and ending at another depth. Keith.

Have you looked at Solidcam Express for Solidworks?

YouTube - SolidCAM Express Overview

Originally Posted by TURNER Hi Neurosis, The graphics side is pants, but what you can do with parametrics is ace.

The graphics in Mastercam is kinda like a modern day Atari. Get ready to shut down most of your graphics card capabilities to make it stable enough to verify. Like I have said before our ATM's here in Canada have better graphics than Mastercam.. No parametrics in Mastercam. I am hearing that in X5 the dimensions dont even update when you stretch an object if you have ever added any text or notes to that dimension.

Originally Posted by TURNER Hi Neurosis, We dont get any models supplied, everything is done from scratch from drgs.

Really look at Solidworks for creating models and an add on CAM package for milling. Mastercam solids is really really bad. You will hate yourself for having to pay a yearly maintanence fee on solids.

http://www.solidworks.com/sw/products/search/results.htm?startrow=11&CategoryID=0&SubCategoryID=0&Company=&Product=View]SolidWorks[/url] By Product&Keyword=View By KeyWord&SearchType=GP,CC&DSProductID=0&cam_only=1&gold_only=1

Also ask your dealer about pricing. It's all over the map. Not sure but I think the dealer just looks at the car you drive..JK. Our dealer sold to us for US dollars only for years when our dollar was only worth .65 of the US dollar. When the dollar became par we were excited about the savings. Called our dealer to order more product to find after years of US only sales there was a new special edition "Canadian" price list introduced that was 40% higher than the old price list. How happy would you be to be quoted in US and billed in GBP. Its hard to deal with a company that plays games like that.

John

I have a lot more experiences I could share and very few of them are positive.

[foxsquirrel]

Did you find the feature matrix for express? Our version is 2010 with HSM, just curious what the difference is between them?