model drawing of a table [B axis]

[PRINT_FX]

anybody can help me finding a model drawing of a table [pallet] with T-slots [B axis] with 1X1 meters to help me with setting up and programming on this horizontal machine ... I'm having some difficulties programming on the right degrees.... it outputs diffently than in the machine..

thanks

[Superman]

A drawing of the table will not assist you in the way you may think it should.

There is a method to follow for programming Verticals and a completely different method for Horizontals

TOP view is the overhead view looking down at the floor from the machine's front
VERTICAL 3 Axis
The "Top view" of the part, is the WCS and is the T/C plane used in all operations.
VERTICAL 4 Axis
The "Top view" of the part, is the WCS to be used in all operations, this "Top View" is A0, the FRONT of the "Top View" is A-90----the standard BACK and BOTTOM views are not correct and do need to be created.

TOP view is the overhead view looking down at the floor
( most machines would have you stand on the spindle-looking down at the table and have the Z+ going behind you )
HORIZONTAL
"Top view" is the WCS for all ops
FRONT of the "Top View" is the T/C plane fo B0
RIGHT of "Top View" is B90
BACK of "Top View" is B180
LEFT of "Top View" is B-90 or B270

***** TOP VIEW is not used in T/C plane for the toolpaths


If you use the vertical programming method for a horizontal, then the left & right plane toolpaths are rotated 90° and will be incorrect

[PRINT_FX]

Originally Posted by Superman A drawing of the table will not assist you in the way you may think it should. There is a method to follow for programming Verticals and a completely different method for Horizontals TOP view is the overhead view looking down at the floor from the machine's front VERTICAL 3 Axis The "Top view" of the part, is the WCS and is the T/C plane used in all operations. VERTICAL 4 Axis The "Top view" of the part, is the WCS to be used in all operations, this "Top View" is A0, the FRONT of the "Top View" is A-90----the standard BACK and BOTTOM views are not correct and do need to be created. TOP view is the overhead view looking down at the floor ( most machines would have you stand on the spindle-looking down at the table and have the Z+ going behind you ) HORIZONTAL "Top view" is the WCS for all ops FRONT of the "Top View" is the T/C plane fo B0 RIGHT of "Top View" is B90 BACK of "Top View" is B180 LEFT of "Top View" is B-90 or B270 ***** TOP VIEW is not used in T/C plane for the toolpaths If you use the vertical programming method for a horizontal, then the left & right plane toolpaths are rotated 90° and will be incorrect

hi Superman, I have concluded that, you are completely right, now I start to understand the concept of programming this machine. I spent mostly of my time programming 3 and 4 axis vertical but this one is a completely different concept horizontal ZXY + B and C.

[PRINT_FX]

Superman, you mentioned about the vertical 4 axis that "top view" is A0.

how about the horizontal 5 axis, how should be the C axis, my C axis the home position is 90DEG.
is this correct?

have a good day

[Superman]

What machine and model do you have ?
and what controller ??

I should be able to google it, to dig up some info.

5 axis machines are a different catagory altogether, quite often, a customised post is required and your programming methods need to adapt to suit the post

You may have documentation at the top section of the post, about how to use the views for programming the post

When I mean to adapt your methods, we have a vertical spindle machine with a 4th axis on the Y ( a B axis ). It is a typical horizontal machine if I flip the machine on it's back, so it is programmed as a horizontal

[PRINT_FX]

Originally Posted by Superman What machine and model do you have ? and what controller ?? I should be able to google it, to dig up some info. 5 axis machines are a different catagory altogether, quite often, a customised post is required and your programming methods need to adapt to suit the post You may have documentation at the top section of the post, about how to use the views for programming the post When I mean to adapt your methods, we have a vertical spindle machine with a 4th axis on the Y ( a B axis ). It is a typical horizontal machine if I flip the machine on it's back, so it is programmed as a horizontal

machine and controller
# Machine Name : TOSHIBA B80-MC
# Control Name : TOSNUC 777/888

I have some information about how to use the views
check below:

# vmc = 0 (horizontal machine) uses the front toolplane as the base machine
# view.
# Relative to the machine matrix -
# Rotation zero position is on the Z axis for rotation on X axis.
# Rotation zero position is on the Z axis for rotation on Y axis.
# Rotation zero position is on the X axis for rotation on Z axis.
# The machine view rotated about the selected axis as a "single axis
# rotation" are the only legal views for 4 axis milling. Rotation
# direction around the part is positive in the CCW direction when
# viewed from the plus direction of the rotating axis. Set the variable
# 'rot_cw_pos' to indicate the signed direction. Always set the work
# origin at the center of rotation.

I have a important question...
my C axis is seating off center on the B [table] axis....
I'm a little confused on how to touch the G54?
there's a lot of opinions and seems like it is not like touching a 3 axis machine or it is?

I have to tell the machine where the part is to be machined but how do I tell the machine where the C axis is...

thank you
appreciated

[Superman]

Originally Posted by PRINT_FX how should be the C axis, my C axis the home position is 90DEG. is this correct?

With this info you just sent, tells me that the zero angle is along the axis line

# Rotation zero position is on the Z axis for rotation on X axis. # Rotation zero position is on the Z axis for rotation on Y axis. # Rotation zero position is on the X axis for rotation on Z axis.

Take these in order,
1st is A axis ( around X ), zero degrees is back up the Z axis
2nd is B axis ( around Y ), zero degrees is also back up the Z axis
3rd is C axis ( around Z ), zero degrees is in the X+ direction ( 3 o'clock position )

G54
It also states to place the model/part or stock in respect of the machine origin......
(or another way to look at it ).....
program it around the "normal views" , create another WCS with the origin at the machines' rotation origin
( HINT, place a point to represent the rotating origin and use this point when setting the XYZ origin in your WCS and T/C planes.... moving this point would move your toolpaths as well.
It is also a good idea to keep the standard views untouched, create your own WCS and views and adjust the origin on these, )

A down-side when programming using this method ( around the machine origin ) is,,,you have to repeat the setup identically every time you run that program......make sure you record your setup accurately, and take photos for reference

If your machine has TPC ( Tool Point Control ), it is much better for placement of origins in respect of the stock,anywhere in the machining envelope, where the control is constantly calculating where the tool point is back to a moving origin when doing 5 axis toolpaths.....something to keep your eye out for

[PRINT_FX]

Originally Posted by Superman With this info you just sent, tells me that the zero angle is along the axis line

I understand and make sense, this all information makes me think and understande at first but after I speak with my colleagues, it looks like a nightmare...
But there is a progress already

Originally Posted by Superman G54 It also states to place the model/part or stock in respect of the machine origin...... (Or another way to look at it .). program it around the "normal views" , create another WCS with the origin at the machines' rotation origin ( HINT, place a point to represent the rotating origin and use this point when setting the XYZ origin in your WCS and T/C planes.... Moving this point would move your toolpaths as well. It is also a good idea to keep the standard views untouched, create your own WCS and views and adjust the origin on these),

so basically, on mastercam environment the part/model should be placed shifted from the WCS = centre of rotation origin the exact amount that the C axis is shifted from the B centre of rotation on the machine...
So in this case mastercam is going to compensate and the machine's movements are going to be exact....???

Originally Posted by Superman A down-side when programming using this method ( around the machine origin ) is,,,you have to repeat the setup identically every time you run that program......make sure you record your setup accurately, and take photos for reference

All the work we do here is just one set-up, this job is one in life...
after this one will come another identical but much bigger... the objective is to make this one and use the knowledge to produce the main project later on...

Originally Posted by Superman If your machine has TPC ( Tool Point Control ), it is much better for placement of origins in respect of the stock,anywhere in the machining envelope, where the control is constantly calculating where the tool point is back to a moving origin when doing 5 axis toolpaths.....something to keep your eye out for

Thanks about this Tool Point Control, look if you're around in this part of the globe one day, let me know, I'll show our sweet shop...
have a good day

[Superman]

Originally Posted by PRINT_FX so basically, on mastercam environment the part/model should be placed shifted from the WCS = centre of rotation origin the exact amount that the C axis is shifted from the B centre of rotation on the machine... So in this case mastercam is going to compensate and the machine's movements are going to be exact....???

Going by your post header (via PM) the post is a 4 axis post for a horizontal with an added 5th axis. I would guess that is not used as a full 5 axis post. There should be a variable in the post to automactically offset the 5th axis along a linear axis, so in effect there is 2 rotational axes----1 spinning around the Y axis, the other around Z---these spin axis do not interset, where you say they miss by approx. 2mm ( I guess in the X direction ).
There may be a place in your post that may take this setting...it would need looking at, and if there is a possible setting field, it would need trialing to get it right

Place your post in a compressed folder and then attach that ZIP folder to your next message ( or copy your post to the desktop and change .PST to .TXT, then attach that TXT file )

All the work we do here is just one set-up, this job is one in life... after this one will come another identical but much bigger... the objective is to make this one and use the knowledge to produce the main project later on...

Good, the G54 origin set in the machine would be un-changed for the big one, and your technique for programming would also be a good guide for the big one.

Thanks about this Tool Point Control, look if you're around in this part of the globe one day, let me know, I'll show our sweet shop... have a good day

Ta, but may be a bit difficult. I'm from the land way down under

[PRINT_FX]

sleeping time over here, thank you

find the post below

will reply tomorow at work

[Superman]

I think I found it

#Tilt axis offset settings
#Set the vector here to indicate to the post if your machine has an offset between the rotary
#centre and the tilt centre.  That is, if your centre of rotation and centre of tilt do not
#intersect you must indicate the offset to the post.  The offset is the vector from rotary 
#centre to tilt centre.
#For a trunnion with tilt about X, the Y value of the vector would need to be set.
#For a trunnion with tilt about Y, the X value of the vector would need to be set.
pt_shftmx   : 0.    #Offset tilt pivot point - mm
pt_shftmy   : 0.    #Offset tilt pivot point - mm
pt_shftmz   : 0.    #Offset tilt pivot point - mm
pt_shftix   : 0.    #Offset tilt pivot point - inch
pt_shftiy   : 0.    #Offset tilt pivot point - inch
pt_shftiz   : 0.    #Offset tilt pivot point - inch

should be +ive or -ive value
suggest you try a big number to show if you have the right direction

Good luck

[PRINT_FX]

Originally Posted by Superman I think I found it #Tilt axis offset settings #Set the vector here to indicate to the post if your machine has an offset between the rotary #centre and the tilt centre. That is, if your centre of rotation and centre of tilt do not #intersect you must indicate the offset to the post. The offset is the vector from rotary #centre to tilt centre. #For a trunnion with tilt about X, the Y value of the vector would need to be set. #For a trunnion with tilt about Y, the X value of the vector would need to be set. pt_shftmx : 0. #Offset tilt pivot point - mm pt_shftmy : 0. #Offset tilt pivot point - mm pt_shftmz : 0. #Offset tilt pivot point - mm pt_shftix : 0. #Offset tilt pivot point - inch pt_shftiy : 0. #Offset tilt pivot point - inch pt_shftiz : 0. #Offset tilt pivot point - inch should be +ive or -ive value suggest you try a big number to show if you have the right direction Good luck

makes perfectly sense indeed, I will try that.
thank you Superman.
have a great weekend, I guess you're already on weekend...