Some questions about mastercam

[Delw]

I am currently running smartcam old version, and going to try like hell to upgrade before the end of this year. just undecided on which one to get, as they all changed over the last 1o years drastically. The 3 I am looking at are smartcam freeform, edgecam( he's coming by on monday) and mastercam x5 now?, all are in the same price range. Smartcam you cant beat it for drawing( you dont need any other program) both smartcam and edgecam are limited on help videos and books, this is where mastercam comes in. plus mastercam has full 4th axis programing, but its lacking in the drawing and editing phase bigtime, and I dont feel like spending on a good cad software at this moment.

I been looking at Mastercam for the last 2-2.5 years now, its looked umm so so. Ive gone through 5 x3 demos bought 3 books and I am still undecided. it looks good but has some major drawbacks MAINLY in the drawing department.
I do like the way it has options for different angled tool paths and a few other things like surfaces which I am new too.( I do it the old way still)

Today I played with the last demo i have in the shop, have no idea how long it will work for, not really the point anyhow. I might ask for another one when this one expires but I think my sales guy might get pissed LOL. does the main mastercam website allow you to download and use them with out creating g-code for a long period of time. I am not worried about producing g-code just trying to figure this software out, however I dont spend everyday all day on it I play with it once a month if that. I think mine have only lasted like 10 or 15 days.
this is my biggest problem with cad-cam software, the 10-15 day limit sucks as unless you have 10-15 days to spend on it your not going to figure it out with out training. like I said I am not looking for g-code just functionability.



the few things I have questions on is?
will mastercam allow you to creating a line then use that created line as a tool path?, for example lets say you want to add a line or 2 ( like grooves) offset to a feature on the part.

Can you edit the tool path that mastercam creates with out redrawing the main program.?
meaning you see a tool path lines and you want to add a slightly different path to it, or cut a section out of the tool path it generates then connect them by lines, or arcs.

I have a ton more, that I may ask later.


Delw

[Superman]

Look closely at the type of work you do defore deciding on the final software
some would use a simple 2.5D software for the "run of the mill", 2D rough jobs like bolt hole circles, blocking out, face , drill, tap etc
and use the "specialised" software for the more involved and complicated shapes and where 4 and 5 axes come into play.

I haven't seen it in X5 yet, but the Mastercam resellers should be able to get a demo or educational version to you, these may be timed and you cannot "post" with these versions. And they can save session but may not be compatable with a proper version. So this may suit you in a trialing type of emvironment.

will mastercam allow you to create a line, then use that created line as a tool path?, for example lets say you want to add a line or 2 ( like grooves) offset to a feature on the part.

Yes, turn OFF cutter comp, the toolpath centreline will follow the drawn line ( XY offset value controls where the path is Left/centre or right of the line---zero is on the line---the lead in/out direction depends on the values and if you select left or right of the line as to the approach. A trick is to have the lead in/out turned OFF, and just to extend the geometry to be outside the stock area

Can you edit the tool path that mastercam creates with out redrawing the main program.? meaning you see a tool path lines and you want to add a slightly different path to it, or cut a section out of the tool path it generates then connect them by lines, or arcs.

You can edit a generated toolpath....slightly, delete/add points, change feedrate for a section of toolpath like at a corner.
you can turn a toolpath into geometry and then select that geometry to drive a tool around

it is difficult to "adjust" a certian section of toolpath (ie one section having a different offset to another), it is better to create additional geometry and use that new geometry to get the desired path.

I have a ton more, that I may ask later.

I/we can't wait...

[TheBigJW]

Lots of good information here.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/master...l_cost_mc.html

Something not mentioned so much here is if you are bringing solids into Mastercam you can'y edit them at all without the Solids package. You can't even just move them. It is usually sold as a sneaky add on. Kind of like Scotchgaurd and undercoating. So this adds a cost to maintenance as it has its own seperate bill that has to be paid. And it you buy Mill and Solids you can never take solids off the key without a big penelty.

Also see here.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/master...m_bashing.html

As well if you are in Canada see if you can find a US address and get it there. You will save a ton.

John

[Delw]

Originally Posted by TheBigJW Lots of good information here. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/master...l_cost_mc.html Something not mentioned so much here is if you are bringing solids into Mastercam you can'y edit them at all without the Solids package. You can't even just move them. It is usually sold as a sneaky add on. Kind of like Scotchgaurd and undercoating. So this adds a cost to maintenance as it has its own seperate bill that has to be paid. And it you buy Mill and Solids you can never take solids off the key without a big penelty. Also see here. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/master...m_bashing.html As well if you are in Canada see if you can find a US address and get it there. You will save a ton. John

John, I read those thread and there funny to read, at least how I take it anyhow, I dont put any real thought into what people say about cadcam softwares cause there always someone who doesnt like this or that or felt they paid to much etc etc. Kinda like machines. guys like superman donkey and a few others on this site are worth listening to as they generally dont feed ya a bunch of horse**** and there pretty straight foward.
the funny part is that all the high end softwares run pretty close to the same price. ie surfcam, edgecam smartcam, mastercam as well as a few others.

as far as code generators, most applications you can make your own or the generic ones work just fine, 4 and 5 axis code generators are a tough one and almost every software again have people who make and sell them, even aftermarket generators are sold.

Maintence fees well I guess if you want to keep up with current versions you have to pay for them, just like any software. its life dude, either pay for them and get the updates and new stuff or dont and be stuck a few years later when then computer systems change or technology changes.
wish I would have done that with smartcam, unless you are runnng xp your pretty much screwed on the old versions.
I know a guy still running a old DOS version of smartcam on a windows 3.1.DOS pc this guy scoures the garage sales just for parts for his pc's . some might laugh at him for stayng with old stuff but like he will tell you it works so why change it.
Bottom line how much money you willing to spend for new technology like everything else.
when your spending 10k plus you need to find what works best for you and your needs.

theres always bobcad, its a cheap software and will do alot, theres pros and cons to that one as well.

the main problem with cad-cam software is that there is little to NO literature on them and how to use them, you basically buy it on what the salesmen said it will do, trial softwares are junk, unless you have used the program in the past and know how its works a trail software isnt going to do crap for you and will expire before you figure out the menu. You dont need to output code to figure a software out, most people can look at the tool paths and figure out if it will work or not. ( from what I am told edgecam has a unlimited trial ( no code ) will find out tomorrow.
Mastercam has books which is one of the big plus's. if the other software manufacturers would follow suit , it would help them bigtime.



Superman, I sent you a PM
Delw

[Superman]

You have brought up BOBcad, yes it is worth considering as a very low cost 2.5D system, it may be a good to get the DEMO as it can import data and it does use geometry to drive toolpaths, it can do a little surfacing work and it may be ideal for 3+1 axis work. Help is via the help desk and replies depend on their workload. It may be a good stepping block to learn with. It also comes with posts that are customizable.

I feel it is not powerful enough to do the true 4/5 axis machining...this is where the higher end CAD systems would come into play

Time involve in setting up a CAD session in any system is important, as this is your cost and cannot really be passed back to the client...so the quicker you get toolpaths out, the higher profit you can achieve.

Mastercam
your inital outlay would be
- for the basic 2.5D wireframe work with some surfacing....mill2
- for work with models from other clients, you may have to go up to mill3 with solids.
- if your machines are more thn 3 axis, multiaxis may be another add-on
- generic posts are supplied with the installation, the reseller should customise the posts to your liking ( simple customising ), negotiate this at the beginning,

Solids addon enables you to create and modify solids, basic Mastecam allows you to import solids, create surfaces and curves from the solid, but not let you do anything else to a solid. You then ignore the solid and manipulate the surfaces ( Xform etc)
Multi-axis addon allows you to create toolpaths for a multi-axis lathe, and a 4th axis on a mill as a 3+1 or full 4-axis or greater.
Posts seperate posts for each of your machines and he should also setup your machine/s in mastercam, and negotiate instruction/training on completion. He must also be available to give advice on certain problems that do tend to crop up more often than not, either by e-mail or phone. Forums are always there, the Emastercam guys are also quite quick in their replies.
A more complicated post (ie 5-axis or mill/turn post will be an additional cost ) and may require seperate instruction on how to use
Mainenance---a very contentious issue,,,,enables you install later releases as they they occur. you may need 1 year of maintenance to get the next version after X5...All their 1st releases have shown to have a few bugs....I was happy with the last release of X2, and I didn't go to X3 with all the bugs that were flying around it ( reminds me of moths around a lightbulb ), jumped over that version to X4 and just started with X4-MU2 then MU3

I have just downloaded X5 and all the extra add-ons, and am playing with that and sitting back for the bug-list to build before decideing to let it (X5) loose with the other guys, but early indications look good. I didn't like the idea that the file structure had changed ( loads Mastercam to Progam files directory, and all the user created stuff goes to the Documents and Settings\User area ), bloody harder to setup for networking to multiple seats---you want to do a session and be able to open that session on another PC, then all the support files that you used have to be available to the other seat...I've got to set it up so that NO DATA can be saved locally....so you can see my little problem.

A small amount of computor skills are required for most CAD system installs, but you may need a little more for customizing a network setup, and if you have a bit of geek in you, posts mods can be quite simple ( that is, if you are only doing "simple" mods, the impossible takes a little longer )

Steve

[Delw]

Superman,
I dont like bashing software but bobcad I wouldnt consider if someone gave it to me.
I do have 3 versions they were used just a few times.



You brought up some good points.
Post's thats a biggy, if its not user configurable I woudnt even consider the software even if the posts were free.

solids I dont know anythign about

But drawing in a program is alos a biggy for me thats one problem I have had with mastercam, is the ease of use but I have no formal training and thats whys its more then likely difficult.

Delw

[Mike Mattera]

Another thread worth considering. It makes a lot of comparisons.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/edgeca...mastercam.html

Mike Mattera

[Delw]

Originally Posted by Mike Mattera Another thread worth considering. It makes a lot of comparisons. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/edgeca...mastercam.html Mike Mattera

that thread is not worth consdering either its nothing more than 2 sales guys going back and forth, I can get that between the haas salesmen and the fadal salemen. to much biased in those threads so there worthless

Delw

[Superman]

I can understand, if you take a dislike to a particular software, some ppl do.

psst John, I not going to mention any names, OK!

We looked at BOBcad, but seemed to fall in a heap once permissions and networking were applied. Otherwise it would have done the task it was going to be applied to........

Post editing
99% of the generic posts are editable in a standard text editor. The skill is understanding how the post can jump about and what/where to go to even start "adjusting" the output...you do learn on the fly, and they do goive a bit more info on how to do post mods and also how to "Debug a post"

the ones you cannot edit are the compiled .PSB sections of a post.

Mastercam uses a CNC_machine to link a .CONTROL file to a .PST file. Some post writers take out a section/s from the .PST file to do big changes to that area and to protect their intellect, they compile it so it cannot be modified, unless you have the original and complete post. You wouldn't want to anyway.

These .PST files would only contain the "header", "tool startup" and "tool end" and the "program end", also the drillcycles, as all these do need mods to suit your machine,
you may also get a section that can output a tool list after the header section, which you could modify to get it in a layout that may be better understood by a toolsetter person.

[Delw]

some of the posts above and on this forum and others are reasons, I was hesitant about asking any questions about mastercam. theres something about all the mastercam forums out there, the people are just downright nasty. not to mention, if your new and looking into it your questions dont get answered its always call your rep/dealer. Kinda why I still Like smartcam, the support is fantastic, and the people that use the support email are all class acts and will go out of there way to help people.

I remember a few years ago a guy from new zealand(sp) on this board finally made the switch to MC I think it was x3 , it was pretty cool to read his threads from someone who was new and bought it, I think I learned more off those threads than most of the other ones.

Delw

[Superman]

I think I know what you mean...

you ask a question on how something is not working for you,

you don't know what else to tick, fill-in, turn ON, etc just to get it to work so the question is asked.......but all you get back are replies that don't address the original query, some may think they know or guess at the answer or that they may just critizise the actual software......it is no help to you at all

I feel for the post starter as he has to read this ****, and then decide what is important in it, then throw it out the window if it turns out to be useless info

I mean if someone asks on how to install V8 or V9, you can assume it's a beginner with a bootleg copy. So the standard reply is to talk to a reseller, mainly so that they could obtain a more up-to-date demo.....for them to keep going, the next question would be for a post for that version ---why would you want a post....technically you are asking me to print money for you, or the graphics don't work on V9, and on... and on....

It gets tedious answering these questions as the answers are obsolete for the new versions...You yourself would know the value that can be added to a generic post after modifing it to a particular machine...this would be for any CAM system

I tend to not give an answer if I'm not sure on the solution, unless he's really pushed into a corner and sometimes a constructive nudge or thought may trigger the solution from another source.

You've asked a question about CAM system...so I have passed on in-depth stuff that a lay person would not have even considered until after purchasing. I think all systems would have the same senario that the initial outlay for the software is NOT the actual final cost you would be up for.

Remember to get it all in writing, even how the data is going to get into the control----this may not just involve the software seller and the machine supplier

Best of luck on your choice
Steve

[jeffliu2]

Originally Posted by Delw I am currently running smartcam old version, and going to try like hell to upgrade before the end of this year. ... I have a ton more, that I may ask later. Delw

Why not try GibbsCAM? Compare GibbsCAM and MasterCAM