Spindle Drive Fault

[n5jjr]

G&L Mill with Acramatic 2100 controller

been getting intermittent Spindle Drive Fault error for 12 to 18 months.
Started when W dirve motor got coolant in it. Motor has been replaced but
no change in errors.

Anyone have ideas about what could be causing error?

Thanks,

Mike

[Al_The_Man]

What kind of spindle controller is fitted? Some machines were fitted with a VFD so there should be a error code on the spindle unit.
Al

[n5jjr]

Thanks for the reply, Al!

I don't know what kind of spindle controller is fitted. I am new to CNC maintenance but will try to find out Monday.

More information:

The fault happens when the mill is in transition between steps, such as pulling back from the work for a tool change, etc., not while actually milling (cutting on the part).

The W axis motor moves the table toward or away from the head. After more thought, I expect the problems with the W axis motor don't have anything to do with the Spindle Drive Fault - just happened to start at the same time.

I did more research after posting my first message here. The expanded Spindle Drive Fault message says, in part:
PLC input 100.00/18
Elec. Schem Line 4104

On digging into the manuals, on Sheet 41 (probably no significance that it was on sheet 41), between 4104 and 4106 in the left margin, I found:


S-DRV/TB1 LINE 1312<------ 18 18->>-->>-18 100:00/18 DI_SDRV_NF

I substituted a few characters and made a few other compressions in the above to try to make it fit this format.
The "---" is actually straight lines in the manual.

There is "1018" just above the line going from "1312" to thie first "18", which appears to mean that line is "1018".

The first two "18"s, going from left to right, are in a skinny vertical box, going from the top of the page to the bottom, labeled "40TB". There are many similar connections apparently going through that box.

Also there is what looks like a screw head, that is a circle with a diagonal line in it, just to the left of the first "18" I showed. I believe all this means the signal in question goes through terminal 18 of 40TB. What do you think?

The third "18" and everything to the right of it are in another tall, not so skinny box with:
"CMDH I/O #1
Rack: 0 Card: 0
J1 Contact Signal Name"
at the top.

From that, I take it that the signal comes from or goes to Input/Output card #1 located in the CMDH (whatever that is) and it goes through J1 pin 18. I don't know what "100-00/18" means. I also don't know what "DI_SDRV_NF" means but think this must be an important clue to the problem. Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Thanks again!

Mike

[n5jjr]

Have looked at all connections, etc. All looked clean, tight, and in good condition. No change in problem.

The Spindle Drive Controller is a Quantum III unit. The Quantum III was displaying a flashing "Et" on the top line and a solid "triP" on the 2nd line. The Drive Ready LED to the right of the display was flashing and the Zero Speed LED was on solid. No other LEDs were on. The trip code was 102 - external trip. Also had a 10.23 = 1 - RO Speed Loop Saturated.

We swapped the I/O cards on the Acramatic. From left to right on the Acramatic, the plug-in boards are Servo (DV5) with the plugs on the front. They look like 9-pin connectors but after taking one off I found it was actually a 15 pin connector. Same outside dimensions as a 9 pin but with more pins. The next 2 cards going right are both I/O (CMHD) cards. They looked identical and Nate, the full-time tech here said they were. That didn't change the problem.

We are wondering if the Quantum III is probably sending a fault to the Acramatic.

Nate and I were talking about general signal flows. We think the Acramatic "talks with" the Quantum III, which sends drive to the spindle and reads the speed of the spindle from the tach. Does that sound correct?

Nate said the error comes up while the operator is gone on break sometimes. It did that today, during the lunch break, while the machine was sitting idle.

Thanks again,

Mike

[Al_The_Man]

Do you have the manual for the Quantum III? I would assume the fault is an external trip which is programmable on the drive, maybe this originates from the PLC, the spindle drive does talk to the acramatic spindle speed and feedback like up-to-speed and zero speed is usually read from the Quantum III.
I am not all that familiar with that particualr set up, so I don't know wether I can help much.
Al

[trubleshtr]

Originally Posted by n5jjr I did more research after posting my first message here. The expanded Spindle Drive Fault message says, in part: PLC input 100.00/18 Elec. Schem Line 4104

PLC input 100.00/18 appears to be an address in the Dm of the PLC used for inputs from the real world ie. sensors ect.

Originally Posted by n5jjr On digging into the manuals, on Sheet 41 (probably no significance that it was on sheet 41), between 4104 and 4106 in the left margin, I found: S-DRV/TB1 LINE 1312<------ 18 18->>-->>-18 100:00/18 DI_SDRV_NF I substituted a few characters and made a few other compressions in the above to try to make it fit this format. The "---" is actually straight lines in the manual.

I would interpret that as follows,

Spindle-drive/table1(setup parameters for the drive to controll the spindle, or parameter waiting for input from the spindle or parameter outputing to the PLC, which I suspect it is) line 1312 is probably refering to where the parameters are located in the set-up page in your controller.
The 1018 I would suspect is the wire number you would find going from the 'device' in the spindle to the electrical panel to the board(device) labeled 40TB.

Originally Posted by n5jjr The first two "18"s, going from left to right, are in a skinny vertical box, going from the top of the page to the bottom, labeled "40TB". There are many similar connections apparently going through that box. The third "18" and everything to the right of it are in another tall, not so skinny box with: "CMDH I/O #1 Rack: 0 Card: 0 J1 Contact Signal Name" at the top. From that, I take it that the signal comes from or goes to Input/Output card #1 located in the CMDH (whatever that is) and it goes through J1 pin 18. I don't know what "100-00/18" means. I also don't know what "DI_SDRV_NF" means but think this must be an important clue to the problem. Your thoughts on this would be appreciated. Thanks again! Mike

The skinney box represents a real item in the elect. panel ie. a I/O board The CMHD I/O is just that a 'input/output board.
TO summize you have a device of some sort (temp switch, sensor of some kind ect...) in the spindle. It appears to be hooked into a drive/axis card, which looks at the info from the device in the spindle, compares it to the parameters set in the drive/axis mod.. whatever wanna call it,and sets a condition to the PLC. In this case, passes this digital input signal to input # 18 of rack 0 card 0 of the plc. They have identified this incoming signal at terminal #18 as "100:00/18 DI_SDRV_NF"
100= input(Is this an Omron PLC???)
:00=rack 0 card 0 (hence the :00)
/18= bit #18 (terminal number 18 where the wire is physically attached)
DI = Digital input ( asignal coming into the plc, which means it was an output from another device....i.e. your mystery device in the spindle)
I would interpret SDRV_NF as further reference to the actual mystery device in the spindle in an abreviated short form....ie. SpindleDrive RV_NF.

do you have info on the spindle? what is inside it? what it is capable of doing/monitoring. Is there a fault code table for the plc or spindle drive to further show which device in the spindle has gone off?

[MetLHead]

Mike,

I've installed a few of the Quantum III drives and I happen to have a manual for it. The alarm you're getting, like Al said, is an external trip. This is usually wired to a thermal switch on the motor, but that's up to whoever wired it. If you look at the bottom of the drive, you should see a board with a 25 pin screw terminal block on it. The external trip input defaults to pin 4 of this block. You need to have 120vac between pin 4 and pin 25 to turn off this alarm. Pin 1 is 120vac, so the external trip circuit should come from pin 1, go through the thermal switch or whatever, and go back into pin 4.

Hope this helps,
Scott

[HillBilly]

If this is a DC spindle with a field I would check the field weakening during idle. It usually reduces the field to 50% voltage and if not working would heat up the motor causing the thermal to trigger during non-operation periods.

Darek

[n5jjr]

I think Al The Man hit the nail on the head. I now believe an external trip is causing the Quantum III to trip, which sends the Spindle Drive Fault to the Acramatic. Thanks to Scott for sending more on what Al sent. This will help me loads on tracing down exactly where the problem is, I am sure.

Thank you, trubleshtr, for taking the time to explain the terminology. Does anyone know where there is a web page or book or something where I can get a list of the symbols used in schematics, etc. for CNC machinery? I am quite familiar with electronics schematics for things like computer and radio stuff but not all the electro-mechanical things common in CNC schematics.

Thanks, Darek, but I believe it's an AC spindle.

Thanks again to everyone!

Mike

[Al_The_Man]

Try this for starters, also a book on PLC control may help with internal logic and external control methods http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tabl...l_symbols.html
The NFPA also publish a booklet entitled Electrical Standards For Industrial Machinery.
Al

[n5jjr]

Thanks, Al!

Boy, am I enjoying this forum and all the help everyone offers!

It is making my entry into CNC maintenance SO much easier!!!

Mike

[trubleshtr]

How did you make out?